<p>Yikes! I hope this doesn't translate into huge increases in tuition and fees...</p>
<p>2010</a> Furlough Announcement.</p>
<p>I don’t see how it couldn’t. Either that, or UIUC faces a dramatic cutback in services and/or classes. :(</p>
<p>Illinois is in serious financial trouble, but we’re not alone. California, Michigan, and New Jersey, to name a few, are also in major financial trouble. And just to the north of us, Wisconsin has the largest deficit by far, per capita, in the U.S. - they’re in even worse shape than California.</p>
<p>
[State’s</a> budget deficit is a real crisis - BizTimes](<a href=“http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwaukee-biz-blog/2009/12/29/states-budget-deficit-is-a-real-crisis]State’s”>http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwaukee-biz-blog/2009/12/29/states-budget-deficit-is-a-real-crisis)</p>
<p>Georgia has been furloughing employees for a while. They’ve added a new “budget deficit” fee for students. Last semester is was $100. This semester it’s $200.</p>
<p>I can’t stand fee increases. They rope you in then jack up the price. All schools should be legally required to lock fees and tuition once a student enrolls for his or her first semester.</p>
<p>I’m not even sure what the GAAP deficit is or whether it really matters in government. The fact is UW-Madison is not currently laying off people and is actively hiring about 100 new profs over the next 2 years. Nor is their (former) President or Board of Regents under scrutiny for providing admissions to friends of politicians. And the football team is lots better too.</p>
<p>Wisconsin’s respose to Pew article:</p>
<p>"DOA Secretary Michael Morgan issued the following statement responding to a Pew Center report that Wisconsin is among the most fiscally challenged states in the country:</p>
<p>"In no way can Wisconsin be compared to the nation’s most financially troubled states, especially California. </p>
<p>"While Wisconsin has been affected, like all states, by the national economic downturn, we have balanced our budget by cutting spending and raising revenues as needed. </p>
<p>"In addition, recent reports have shown that many other states have large revenue shortfalls in the current fiscal year. But Wisconsin does not. </p>
<p>"The Pew Center report is factually inaccurate. From the outset, the report is fundamentally flawed. </p>
<p>"It is not true that the recession has hit Wisconsin harder than other states. While we have taken hits like everyone else, Wisconsin has fared much better than other states and manufacturing is doing better in Wisconsin compared to our neighboring states. </p>
<p>"While Wisconsin’s unemployment rate increased during the national economic recession, again like all states, it is now improving and is more than two percentage points below the national average of 10.2 percent. </p>
<p>"Finally, the report fails to take into account many of the good budgetary practices of Wisconsin. For the first time in 32 years, the state’s budget was finished on time. In spite of tough times, the budget the Governor signed cut spending from state general fund taxes by 2.5% and includes a $270 million surplus for the period that ends July 1, 2011. </p>
<p>“We have worked hard in Wisconsin to ensure that we can come out of this national economic recession in a strong position.”</p>
<p>Hmmm… someone doesn’t have their story straight. Pew reports a large per capita deficit in Wisconsin, and for FY 2010, the National Conference of State Legislatures has Wisconsin at 12th worst in per capita deficits:
[Smart</a> Politics - Democratic-Controlled Legislatures Overseeing 17 of the 20 Highest State Budget Deficits Nationwide](<a href=“http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2009/03/democraticcontrolled_legislatu.php]Smart”>http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2009/03/democraticcontrolled_legislatu.php)</p>
<p>UW-Madison has already been furloughing employees to deal with Wisconsin’s deficit.
[Chancellor?s</a> Furlough Update (June 25, 2009)](<a href=“http://www.news.wisc.edu/16859]Chancellor?s”>Chancellor’s Furlough Update)</p>
<p>Here’s the bottom line. People will decide where to attend after weighing a good many factors dealing with the universities where they have been admitted. Cost is increasingly becoming more important of a factor. In recent years at Illinois, the annual tuition has been fixed for a student’s 4 years of attendance. This is a major consideration for many people. Last year at Wisconsin, as Jiffsmom correctly points out in other posts, a $7,500 fee was added for OOS admits AFTER the May 1st deadline for offer acceptance. From the perspective of those OOS people who had accepted, this decision was considered underhanded, and outrageous. Those kind of bait and switch tactics don’t hold well with many people who are in the process of considering Wisconsin as one of their options.</p>
<p>As for the admissions scandal, I’d say that’s been dealt with, and I commend those who brought the issue to light. I’m confident in the integrity of the admissions process, and I’m assuming you’re not stating that you believe the practice continues today. In fact, given the scrutiny that you mention, I’m at least as confident in the Illinois admissions process as I am with Wisconsin’s.</p>
<p>I realize that you were responding to Jiffsmom’s comments regarding Wisconsin, but I think it’s bad form to take cheap shots at a school regarding an admissions scandal that has been outed and corrected. Stick to correcting her statistics if you disagree, don’t take the low road when it comes to panning Illinois.</p>
<p>uiuc does lock tuition bro</p>
<p>Seems Wisconsin might be trying to gloss over their financial difficulties. The NCSL has also reported on the severity of Wisconsin’s budget deficit, as noted above, and Pew stands by their findings:</p>
<p>
[Pew</a> Center stands by its report on Wisconsins financial crisis - BizTimes](<a href=“http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwaukee-biz-blog/2009/11/12/pew-center-stands-by-its-report-on-wisconsins-financial-crisis]Pew”>http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwaukee-biz-blog/2009/11/12/pew-center-stands-by-its-report-on-wisconsins-financial-crisis)</p>
<p>The big picture… several states’ public colleges and universities may be in peril. :(</p>
<p>The Madison Initiative was well discussed from the beginning of the year and received considerable press coverage. The average increase for OOS is about 3.4% a year-far less than many school have increased tuition in many years. People are whining over an increase that many other schools impose over the Summer well after May 1 every year as state budgets are rarely completed before JUly 1 so tuition is set in the summer. The claim that rasing tuituion in May is somehow unfair is just false and spurious noise. State schools have even done midyear tuition increases due to budget cuts . You are whining over money that is going directly to improve undergraduste education. Tuition goes up–deal with it. Even when it’s fully implemented the OOS tuition will be well below the B10 average. Illinois OOS tuition and fees are around $30,000–about $7,000 more than UW. Even after the full increase of $3000 Illinois is much higher today.</p>
<p>Not in Illinois, barrons. OOS students who had applied to UW-Madison were not notified of the proposed Madison Initiative tuition surcharge. I learned after the fact that UW’s chancellor sent letters to current UW students at the time, propagandizing the surcharge, but letters were not sent to the following year’s crop of admitted students. The $7,500 OOS tuition surcharge WAS passed by UW AFTER the May 1st enrollment date, AFTER OOS students had committed to attend UW-Madison and had turned down offers of admission from other schools, including UIUC.</p>
<p>Yes, schools raise their tuition after the May 1st enrollment deadline. What you neglect to mention is that the $7,500 OOS tuition surcharge is IN ADDITION TO the usual 5-6% UW annual tuition increase, which applies to everyone. UW-Madison does not lock their tuition at the first year’s rate as does UIUC - another point you neglect to consider in your cost comparison. UIUC tuition remains the same for the student; UW-Madison’s increases 5-6% each year. </p>
<p>The $7,500 OOS tuition surcharge passed AFTER the May 1st enrollment deadline WAS, in fact, an underhanded and outrageous bait and switch tactic foisted upon that year’s crop of incoming OOS students. Those applying in subsequent years have the advantage of full knowledge of the additional $7,500 tuition surcharge cost BEFORE making the committment to attend. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the surcharge has done nothing to ease the problems UW-Madison has in accommodating highly achieving students’ course enrollment needs as noted in my and AxeBack’s posts on the UW-Madison forum:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063556921-post12.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063556921-post12.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063557177-post15.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063557177-post15.html</a></p>
<p>The problems UW-Madison has in the way students are admitted - mostly as general BA degree seekers in L&S, not directly into a school and/or major, plays a role in keeping UW-Madison’s 4-year graduation rate exceedingly low for a top 10 public school, as students are locked out of, or have the very lowest priority for registering for classes in schools other than L&S.</p>
<p>4-year graduation rates of the top 10 publics:
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC) </p>
<p>There is other interesting data in that linked chart including the amount of student related expenditures (how much the school spends on each student per year), the percentage of students receiving Pell Grants, and the percentage of URMs. GA Tech’s rate is unusually low because ~60% of their students are engineering majors. UW-Madison’s problems in their systemic structure and program/degree admission practices that block students from taking the classes they need to pursue their degree could be causing their unusually low 4-year graduation rate.</p>
<p>I know you regularly parrot the UW-Madison marketing talking points, barrons, and you may actually believe what you’re saying, but the experience of real students isn’t quite as rosy as you try to lead others to believe. Just take a look at UW-Madison’s lower than usual 4-year graduation rate. Perhaps it would be better for you to spend your time working with UW-Madison admin to fix their systemic problems, instead of spreading the usual UW-style chest-beating thuggery beyond the UW-Madison forum.</p>
<p>“I know you regularly parrot the UW-Madison marketing talking points, barrons, and you may actually believe what you’re saying, but the experience of real students isn’t quite as rosy as you try to lead others to believe. Just take a look at UW-Madison’s lower than usual 4-year graduation rate. Perhaps it would be better for you to spend your time working with UW-Madison admin to fix their systemic problems, instead of spreading the usual UW-style chest-beating thuggery beyond the UW-Madison forum.”</p>
<p>And it is clear from your posts that your vendetta against UW Madison continues. </p>
<p>Experience of real world students: </p>
<p>[Students</a> say UW-Madison tuition increase working](<a href=“http://host.madison.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin/article_f9bcb34a-dda6-5394-b636-a456c33a34c3.html?mode=story]Students”>http://host.madison.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin/article_f9bcb34a-dda6-5394-b636-a456c33a34c3.html?mode=story)</p>
<p>How many students don’t graduation in 4 years because they couldn’t get a class? Not anectodal, “my daughters’ friends say…” but numbers? How many? What majors? It’s not enough to say the 4 year grad rate is X so it must be because of Y. </p>
<p>Plus the 4 year grad rate has steadily risen over the past 7 years contradicting the “crisis” environment you paint:</p>
<p><a href=“http://apa.wisc.edu/RetGrad/Students_RetnGrad_All.pdf[/url]”>http://apa.wisc.edu/RetGrad/Students_RetnGrad_All.pdf</a></p>
<p>And for those considering either school out of state, going to UW Madision is cheaper and will be cheaper for the coming years than UIUC.</p>
<p>
Vendetta? No. Legitimate complaint about the way the UW-Madison OOS tuition surcharge was handled for that particular admission year? Yes.</p>
<p>I see the UW-style thuggery continues. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
Your link to the experience of real world students is also anecdotal. If you want real numbers, look at the chart:
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC)</p>
<p>UW-Madison’s most recently reported 4-year graduation rate is 52.4%, still well below nearly all of the other top 10 publics’ 4-year rates as of two years ago. It’s likely their rates have improved somewhat, as well.</p>
<p>
That’s true for a single year. After that, UW-Madison’s tuition continues to increase annually at a compounded rate, while UIUC’s tuition is locked at the first year rate.</p>
<p>It is not a $7500 surcagrge for one year and you know that. Its the four year total and I doubt there are many major publics that will have a smaller increase over the same period. UW is cheaper than most PERIOD.<br>
If you were at all vigilant about learning what was going on at UW the MI was on the front page of the website for many months before May 1. </p>
<p>All the rest is claptrap stats and anecdotes that apply to any big school. Even many big privates don’t have all the classes everyone wants at the time they want them. Many (75% of upperclassmen) instate UW students work and take their time graduating. Most OOS students graduate in 4 years if they want to. Madison is so nice many like to stay a little longer too. UI is one of the few comparable schools that locks tuition. UM does not, UVa does not, UCB does not and is going up about 35% this year!! How’d you like that?</p>
<p>“Vendetta? No. Legitimate complaint about the way the UW-Madison OOS tuition surcharge was handled for that particular admission year? Yes.”</p>
<p>Yes, a quick review of all your posts shows over 50% are attacks on UW Madision. A CC reader should be very very wary of your posts. </p>
<p>It’s the oldest trick in the book to present as the vicitm while being the attacker. Really you’re behaving like a bully.</p>
<p>The Ed Trust website referred to does not discuss why students took longer than 4 years to graduate.</p>
<p>
You’re forgetting to add the part that those posts were legitimate complaints made AFTER the outrageous underhanded bait and switch $7,500 tuition surcharge foisted upon OOS students without warning AFTER the May 1st enrollment deadline, and AFTER those legitimate complaints were met with the typical UW-style chest-beating thuggery typically on display on the UW forum. What words were used to describe the UW thugs? Oh yeah, “Bucky Ugly.”</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062646137-post10.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062646137-post10.html</a></p>
<p>
No. You all are the ones who are Bucky Ugly. …Not to mention the other forms of xenophobic intolerance prominently on display at UW-Madison:
[‘Coastie</a> Song’ stirs up U. of Wisconsin campus - Boston.com](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/12/15/coastie_song_stirs_up_u_of_wisconsin_campus/]'Coastie”>http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/12/15/coastie_song_stirs_up_u_of_wisconsin_campus/)
[The</a> problem with the “What’s A Coastie?” song | Dane101](<a href=“http://www.dane101.com/music/2009/12/15/the_problem_with_the_whats_a_coastie_song]The”>http://www.dane101.com/music/2009/12/15/the_problem_with_the_whats_a_coastie_song)</p>
<p>
And, AGAIN, you’re forgetting the fact that UIUC locks students’ tuition at the first year rate. No 5-6% tuition rate increases, compounded annually, like UW. UW is less costly on that first year comparison for OOS students, but then not so much after the tuition increases are compunded every year and the additional tuition surcharge is added. And yes the $7,500 surcharge is the 4 year total, but as we’ve already seen, UW lags FAR behind the other top 10 publics in their 4-year graduation rate (GA Tech’s is low due to their very high percentage of engineering students).
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC)</p>
<p>
AGAIN, UW’s chancellor sent OOS UW students a letter propogandizing the tuition surcharge. The chancellor did NOT similarly notify newly admitted OOS students. Why are admitted students expected to scour the website for information that directly financially affects them, but students ALREADY AT UW get sent letters? Especially when the UW students would be hit with LESS of an additional surcharge given that they were already 1+ years into seeking their degrees? Poor systemic management rears its head, again.</p>
<p>The bait and switch, unfair, surprise tuition ‘surcharge’ was handled very poorly for the admitted students. UW sucker punched admitted OOS students. Very poor form, but par for the course given UW’s bullyish intolerant xenophobic behavior (see UW’s ‘Coastie Song’ anti-semitism problem).</p>
<p>
And yet they have much higher 4-year graduation rates than UW. Hmmm…</p>
<p>
What makes you think students at other schools don’t also work? College is expensive. Many kids on many campuses work.</p>
<p>
That adds quite a bit of expense. It’s a burden to take on extra expense/debt like that. I hardly think students are sticking around for an extra year or two because ‘Madison is so nice.’ There are plenty of other very nice college campuses/towns. If it’s a top school, they almost always have much higher 4-year graduation rate than UW.</p>
<p>
UI is not a top 10 public.</p>
<p>
Great! Now all you have to do is fix UW’s systemic problems that lock students out of the classes they need to take to pursue their degrees, and UW can unlock their tuition too! Oh wait… UW DOESN’T lock their tuition, and their students ARE locked out of classes because of UW’s systemic mismanagement so that they DO have a much lower 4-year graduation rate. Do I need to quote the posts complaining about how UW students have to waste semester(s) at UW taking courses they don’t need because they are locked out of the courses they do need to take, again? Not to mention the post that complains about a UW staff member deriding an AP credit student because the staff member was asked to make an exception to UW’s ridiculous course lockout rules…</p>
<p>Go back to UW, barrons, and get to work on having the admin fix their systemic problems, and address UW’s intolerance and xenophobia issues. That’s the best possible outcome on the frustrating issues that’ve caused bad feelings for many.</p>
<p>Someone is off their med’s again.</p>
<p>See what I mean about the UW-style bullying? If you stick up for yourself against the UW thugs, you’re ‘off your meds.’</p>
<p>UW’s anti-semite and xenophobia problems hit the national newswires on Dec. 15th, 2009 when the Associated Press released their article. A google search for “‘Coastie Song’ stirs up U. of Wisconsin campus” (exact wording, in quotes) yields over 300,000 results. UW’s intolerance problems are enough of an issue that newspapers nationwide picked up the article.</p>