University of Michigan vs Colorado School of Mines

Colleges and Universities A-Z Colorado School of Mines
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<p>Hi, I have been accepted to both University of Michigan-Ann Arbor CoE and Colorado School of Mines. I know I want to do something in Mechanical or Aerospace Engineering or Physics. I also know that I want to do a 5-year program to get my BS/MS quicker than the normal 6 years. I am from Michigan so I get instate tuition to U of M, however, I have 12k per year at CSM so money is not going to be the deciding factor. All things said, I have some questions about both institutions.</p>

<p>I know I want to do a five year program and I know many CSM students are admitted to the Engineering Physics BS/MS program without being exceptional students (not saying that I’m not smart, just kinda lazy, yes I know I’ll need to fix that). My concern with Michigan is that their SGUS program is only for the top engineering students for Aerospace and a requirement is a min 3.5 GPA. How hard is maintaining a 3.5 GPA in college?</p>

<p>Next, the size difference is not much of a concern but is getting the full college experience worth it at U of M compared to a small college?</p>

<p>As far as location goes Golden wins hands down. I’ve visited both campuses and like both but Golden does offer better recreational activities as well as the Rockies for snowboarding. As well as Colorado gets 300+ days of sunshine per year while the weather here in Michigan during the school year is “eh” at best.</p>

<p>Transportation to U of M is definitely easier. Not that I live super close to U of M but rather 130 miles vs 1100 miles out to Golden. Plane flights are never cheap.</p>

<p>My main concerns are about the program availability, I don’t want to be at U of M for four years just to be rejected from the SGUS program. Anyone with some insight to either program would be appreciated. I know both are good schools and I’m in a fortunate position of really not being able to go wrong, I just really want my MS in five years. Thanks</p>

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<p>spaceng, I recommend you focus more on the here and now. Your first priority at the moment is to get an undergraduate degree? Where do you feel your undergraduate education would be best served? I am sure there will be plenty of options for graduate school, regardless of which program you attend…and do not be surprised if your graduate school aspirations change drastically in the next 3-4 years, which is why you need to focus more on your undergraduate program.</p>

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<p>Yes, Alexandre, you are correct; undergrad obviously has to come first. I really do feel like I will be well served at both institutions hence, “I really can’t go wrong.” As for focusing on the “here and now” it’s really going to come down to whether I want to be a physics major or an engineering major. However, the end result is going to be the same, MS in Engineering. As for addressing the not being surprised if my aspirations change, no duh. I have two sisters in college who have both changed majors and I understand that it could happen. However, I was told some good advice that knowing what you want to do in college before college works better, so that is my goal as of now. Yes, I have considered business and law school. Although I understand that being an engineering or physics major can both set me up to attend grad school for business or law. That’s why I want to receive a sound foundation as an undergrad so I will change my question. </p>

<p>At what institution will I receive a more sound foundation for future grad school applications or employment? Any insight to life or opinions about either school is appreciated.</p>

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<p>While a decent school, it will be difficult to come up with an academic reason to choose CSM over umich. Now $ may be a reason. What is your cost of attendance look like at both schools?</p>

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<p>Total cost won’t be an issue but CSM will come to about 29k/year and U of M will most likely be about 25k/year. What makes you say it is difficult to find an academic reason to choose CSM or U of M? CSM boasts some of the highest starting salaries of graduates with a very high employment rate. I know conversely USNews says U of M is a much better school but as far measuring a schools level of academics I see starting salaries as a reasonable way to measure a college program. There is however that fact that CSM has less than 4500 students while U of M has 40000+ so starting salaries can deviate away from the high end for U of M much easier. However, more specifically, UMich CoE graduates starting salaries are still lower than CSM.</p>

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<p>spaceng, if CSM offered you $12K, the cost of attending should be in the $32,000 range, and that does not include plane travel. Michigan will cost roughly $27,000, but there is a small bump (less than $2k) after Sophomore year. I agree that cost difference is not really that significant.</p>

<p>As for starting salaries, I do not recommend taking them too seriously as they do not take industry type into consideration. I assume many CSM graduates go on to work as Geological / Petroleum Engineers which typically earns good money. While I suspect that graduates from both universities will find good jobs and earn good money, Michigan will attract a broader range of employers simply because it is larger and offers a wider range of Engineering options. </p>

<p>There are many things to consider, and you need to go with your gut. Where do you want to go? Only you can answer this.</p>

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<p>Not only the starting salaries vary with the field of studies, they also vary with region. I can imagine more CSM graduates going to work in the west coast area that the average salaries are much higher than those jobs in the mid-west. Although the UM graduates may also go to the West coast to work, but there is a higher tendency for them to stay in the mid-west.</p>

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<p>Ok, I really appreciate the postings on my thread, however, I’d really like someone with some insight on either program to post so I can get the information I would like to consider. And if that doesn’t happen then it’s fine. There are other places to locate information; CC just seemed like a good starting point.</p>

<p>Alexandre, twice you have posted now and have not given me any information. Instead, you have chosen to tell me that I am wrong (which I’m not) with prices, I have left out plane costs because those are not an issue and but obviously you insist on telling me information that I already know, undermine my research, tell me that I am wrong, and still have not given me the answer that I am looking for. So with that, I ask that you no longer post on this thread.</p>

<p>As for taking starting salaries seriously, yes I will. Until the information given to me by the professors I talked to at CSM (industry with highs, lows, and average was provided) is proved false which I have no reason to believe so, then I will take what they say seriously. Also, clearly the amount of research about CSM is not up to par by CC mods (which is okay, small school, not really expecting them to know that much) as Alexandre says that job prospects are greater simply based on university size. Also, seeing that CSM is indeed more of a specialty school, a broader range of employers in not necessary. Keep in mind that CSM is well known in industry as is U of M making them even which is one reason why my decisions is so difficult. Also, I have taken into consideration demographics and applied them to my research. Yes, billcsho is correct that many graduates end up with jobs in the same region as their university, however, a higher salary is a higher salary regardless of location and saying that a degree from CSM will earn more on the west coast then a degree from U of M earning in the mid-west is not obsolete information since the west coast job earns more and that should be taken into consideration when selecting a school. And yes, I have considered living costs for locations before anyone else tries to say I’m wrong about something else. </p>

<p>As for doing what my gut says, obviously I’m working on that. I would not have made this thread if it were that easy.</p>

<p>So, once again, does anyone have some insight into either program mentioned in my first post?</p>

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<p>Just got to CSOM and be done with it spaceng. You obviously have your mind made up. Good luck!</p>

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<p>University of Michigan all the way. It has very high prestige and much better program than CSOM. You get in-state as a bonus so I don’t see any reason to turn it down. Out of state people are paying 40k for the same education and you get it for 13k. Your transportation cost also won’t be that high.</p>

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<p>@spaceng You’re wrong.</p>

<p>Beyond the fact that Colorado School of Mines doesn’t even offer a major in aerospace, the other two programs you mentioned an interest in, Michigan has the higher average starting salary. In mechanical engineering, the average starting salary for a Michigan graduate is $64,646 versus CSoM’s $63,252, and in engineering physics, Michigan graduates start at an average of $63,250 versus CSoM’s $58,962. It’s absolutely ludicrous for you to assert that U-M will give you a lower starting salary than CSoM. As Alexandre pointed out before, many CSoM graduates go into petroleum engineering, which is known as an extremely lucrative field. If CSoM graduates have a higher overall salary, its because a higher percentage of grads go into these higher paying fields. When you choose to do a truthful comparison however, and compare Michigan and CSoM major to major, there is no significant difference, and when there is a difference, it’s usually to Michigan’s benefit.</p>

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<p>@KronOmega</p>

<p>First off, I’m not wrong, and your numbers are probably off, source? U of M says their BSE graduates in ME start around $61,000 right off of their website, CSM 63,000. Also, I’m talking about MS salaries here not BS (I assume you were doing BS salaries in which your numbers were still off), in which case CSM is $70,535 and U of M is $67,867, again right off their websites. Next, you are reading too far into this, I am not asserting anything, hence my difficult decision, I am simply weighing the tendencies of each option to try to set myself up for success. The main variable for the type of career I want to pursue or salary I could earn is me, not the school. </p>

<p>As for Engineering Physics at U of M, I would not pursue that program since it is not ABET accredited and CSM’s program is, point CSM. However, CSM only has an ASI (area of special interest) program for aerospace, whereas U of M’s Aerospace Program is rated #3 in the country (USNEWS), point U of M.</p>

<p>Next, here’s my plan, to make things more clear. If I would go to CSM I’d be doing Engineering Physics then a bonus year for a MS in ME. If I went to U of M I’d do ME or AE and apply to the SGUS program. Of course, nothing is certain about the outcome of any of those, things could always change as addressed above, but I am talking about my thoughts as of now.</p>

<p>As for you saying I’m wrong, I’m not (as explained above, there seems to be a discrepancy in our numbers and I’ll trust myself before you as I should). You are also out of line by posting simply to tell someone they are wrong. I hope you have better things to do than ■■■■■ forums. Also, the word “ludicrous”, correct me if I’m going to deep, but based on your tone you gave that word a pretty harsh connotation and I do not appreciate that since my post was not absurd. Next, you obviously haven’t read the rest of this thread carefully since you still insisted on factoring in the Petroleum and Geological Engineering salaries of CSM. I thought I mentioned that those were already factored out and we were on program specific salaries. Finally, you didn’t even provide insight into either program. How foolish of you to waste your time like that.</p>

<p>I see this decision as hard because I can’t seem to find a way for one to outweigh the other. Big vs Small? Don’t care. NCAA Big Ten D1 or NCAA D2, point U of M Easier program to get into, point CSM. Better campus location (in my opinion of course), point CSM. Better social life, point U of M. I view them as too similar in academics to make a decision based on that. That is why I would like some insight into those programs because that would hopefully provide me with enough information to make a stronger decision than I would right now. Cost is not a factor.</p>

<p>So, again, does anyone have any insight into CSM’s EP/ME program of U of M’s AE, ME, or SGUS programs? Please only post if you have valid information, and if this thread dies then it dies, oh well.</p>

<p>I’m leaning more towards U of M right now since its closer and I have friends that will attend there as well. Although, the location of CSM is gorgeous and is exciting.</p>

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<p>@spaceng I’m not in those programs, so I can’t comment on them. I’m only pointing out that the data you are using is incorrect or out of date or based on some other metric (average vs median etc). My data is based purely from the public annual reports (11-12) of both universities. CSoM only reports average salaries, so it only made sense to choose the average salaries for Michigan as well.</p>

<p>Michigan-2012 (Masters) (average)
-Aerospace: $72,890
-Mechanical: $75,226</p>

<p>CSoM-2012 (Masters) (average)
-Mechanical: $70,028</p>

<p>Remember, this data is also skewed because of the different regions. When you break it down into the given salary in a given major in a given region, I’m pretty sure you would see an even greater advantage to Michigan. Unfortunately, CSoM gives no such breakdown, so it will have to stay at this.</p>

<p>In my opinion, this is a silly exercise because the average reported salaries are just so wildly inconsistent. To give one example, if we were doing this salary analysis last year, the difference between these two schools would have been a full $12,000 (~72,000 at Michigan vs ~60,000 at CSoM), instead of the ~$5,000 it is this year. The best way (and it still isn’t a good way) to honestly compare salaries is to do an average over many years, and then break it down by both major and region.</p>

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<p>If its silly then don’t respond? Of course salary is not good way to measure a program but it is an acceptable one (sorry I did not make that point more explicit above). This is one of my last resorts measuring advantages of one institution over another. I’m considering U of M stronger each day now since I’m giving more weight to the fact that U of M would be a better place to switch majors just in case (even though I do not think that would happen, but who knows?) I also found the discrepancy in our numbers coming to the conclusion of us both being correct. I found those annual reports you spoke of and digging deep into the reports I found that the average salaries of U of M are total compensation salaries (pay, benefits, vacations) whereas CSM is just pay. So according to you, you are right, according to me I am right. Glad to see this disagreement resolved. Whether I want to be an aerospace engineering major or an engineering physics major in Golden is now up to me. Probably will choose U of M since aerospace has been my choosen path since third grade. I’d hate to give up college in such a gorgeous place but when it comes down to what I really want its hard to turn down a top 5 aerospace school. Whatever I choose, I can’t go wrong. </p>

<p>Still, has anyone ever experienced any of these programs or have insight about the classroom?</p>

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<p>spaceng, starting salaries are almost the same across the board for all engineers, whether they graduate from a top 10 Engineering school (like MIT or Cal or Cornel) or from an Engineering program ranked out of the top 100. Obviously, MIT Engineers will be paid a little more as an incentive, but the difference will not amount to more than 10%. Same with business schools. Wharton graduates’ starting salaries at approximately 10% higher than those at significantly inferior business programs. But if you look at the companies that recruit on campus, or at the number of offers that are given to Wharton graduates, you will immediately notice the benefits. The difference will not manifest itself in salaries but in opportunities. The better the engineering program, the more recruitment will take place on campus and the more offers students will have to consider.</p>

<p>Also, while nature around Golden is indeed gorgeous, Ann Arbor is a nicer and more vibrant city than Golden. Boulder is very nice, but that’s a good 30 minutes drive. And if you are male, the 3:1 male to female ratio cannot be that appealing! ;)</p>

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<p>Whether Ann Arbor is nicer than Golden is all of a matter of opinoin. And thats cool, opinions are great. For me, I perfer Golden. I like the location more than Ann Arbor. I don’t know what determines “nicer” probably once again opinion and instead of vibrancy I’d take the mountainous view, still my opinion, and opinions are cool. You have yours, I have mine. And yes, the 3:1 ratio sounds awful.</p>

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<p>It is hard to compare Ann Arbor to Golden. Ann Arbor has a population of 120,000, while Golden is smaller, with a population of 20,000. One is a mid-sized city while the other is a town. But you are right,it is a matter of preference.</p>

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<p>@spaceng
To clarify, the annual reports for Michigan Engineering does not include benefits or vacation into their base salary calculation. If it did, the differences would be no less than 15k - 25k. The actual metrics used in the data collection can be found at <a href=“https://www.engin.umich.edu/form/destinationsurvey1213[/url]”>About | University of Michigan: College of Engineering. I believe the website requires CoE authorization, but I can assure you that there are no fields for the user to input data on either benefits or vacation. I would be very interested to see where you got information otherwise as that should most certainly be corrected.</p>

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<p>@spaceng
To clarify, the annual reports for Michigan Engineering does not include benefits or vacation into their base salary calculation. If it did, the differences wouldn’t just be any less than 20k - 25k. The actual metrics used in the data collection can be found at <a href=“https://www.engin.umich.edu/form/destinationsurvey1213[/url]”>About | University of Michigan: College of Engineering. I believe the website requires CoE authorization, but I can assure you that there are no fields for the user to input data on either benefits or vacation. I would be very interested to see where you got information otherwise as that should most certainly be corrected.</p>

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<p>No one mentioned alumni network and industrial connections so far. Michigan CoE wins that one hands down. It might not matter if you are an average engineering student. However, if you are good, you have access to some of the more lucrative engineering opportunities through referrals.</p>