As a current student at UW, I would be absolutely shocked if someone from Minnesota was denied with a 31, 3.88, and a strong course load. I know many people from Minnesota who got in with ACT scores several points lower and the same GPA/course load. Obviously essays are still important, but I would be floored if she didn’t at least get offered acceptance into the College of Letters & Sciences.
Not sure who said that they or their kid got a 35, but a 35 with anything over a 3.5 and a respectable course load should be a cake walk for UW-Madison. I got accepted here last year and my ACT was no 35.
I’m a current student at UW and I noticed this thread…A lot of people on here are WAY over-selling how hard it is to get in to UW-Madison, and I don’t want that scaring prospective students or parents. You have to remember that a 30 on the ACT puts you at above average here, and that Madison looks a lot at what courses applicants took in high school and considers that when they look at GPA. About 120 kids of my high school class of about 230 apply to Madison every year, and it’s extraordinarily rare for anyone with a 3.6 and a strong course load with give or take a 30 ACT to get denied, especially if they have competent essays and extracurricular involvement. Yeah, it’s going to be a little harder if you’re not from Wisconsin or Minnesota, but it’s still in the same ballpark.
@noahkirch - what was your unweighted GPA?
Only a 3.6. I’m not sure how in-depth they got, because I took some decently difficult courses and attended a challenging high school, and I sort of bombed freshman year and bounced back, but nonetheless it’s not like they automatically toss out anything below a 3.75 unweighted like some may think.
@noahkirch, they do not just toss out anything below a 3.75 but nearly three quarters of the class entering fall 2017 had a 3.75 or higher so they put a LOT of weight on your GPA. In fact, GPA, class rank and course load are listed as “very important” factors for admission on the CDS, while test scores, essay, rec. letters and state residency are listed as “important”. It’s fair to conclude that they weigh GPA more heavily than test score, all else equal. That doesn’t mean an outstanding test score like a 35 won’t be given some leeway, but a 32 and a 3.6 or even a 3.7 GPA may not be. There are lots of CC posts from a few years of decisions to confirm that.
Looking at Naviance for our HS which sends a fair number of kids to Wisconsin (we are in MD), the magic cutoff for GPA seems to be 3.5. Nearly 175 applicants over the past three years and only 14 kids with a GPA of 3.5 were denied or waitlisted.
No doubt that stats for accepted students are increasing at Wisconsin, similar to many schools. I don’t know how Wisconsin calculates the CDS average GPA, but I have always viewed that number from any school with some skepticism, because some schools do manipulate that number–there is no generally accepted way to calculate it.
It’s complicated because transcripts of students are inconsistent, and do not show GPAs calculated in the same way. My kids’ transcripts only show weighted GPA, there is no unweighted anywhere, on an interim or final transcript. Some schools recalculate unweighted GPA on a 4.0 scale for all enrolled students, some include only core courses, some include electives. Some schools take the average of all final transcript GPAs of enrolled students, so a mix of unweighted and weighted. And I am sure there are other ways of calculating it. So, in my mind, it’s tough to make comparisons to the CDS GPA and best to use your high school’s Naviance, if you have it.
^ @Mwfan1921 all colleges convert the diversity of GPA scales to an UW 4.0. It’s not hard to do. And, btw, that’s what they have to report to CDS. The individual Naviance data points, on the other hand, are likely to be school-specific so not quite as accurate if you have weighting and so forth.
amend to add: “accurate” for comparison across schools. It’s obviously fine to compare among students at a given school.
Regarding @DCNatFan’s point, my son’s HS has limited Naviance information but kids have definitely been admitted with a lower GPA than 3.75; there aren’t enough data points to determine a magic number, unfortunately. His school is also pretty diverse in terms of SES, ethnic status, first-gen, etc. so that might be a factor (particularly first-gen). The large majority who apply don’t get in at all so these lower GPA kids might be very exceptional in other ways.
Nearly 1/5 of the Fall 2017 class has a 3.5 - 3.74 GPA so clearly UW-Madison is admitting many in that category. The question is odds.
@jbstillflying The best source for students to evaluate their chances at any school is their high school’s Naviance admission statistics. The average GPA in my kids’ Naviance for Wisconsin is far below 3.84 (line c12 in Wisconsin’s 2017/18 CDS), and our school sends 20-30 kids to Wisconsin every year. Maybe the average GPA in our school’s Naviance would be higher if it included non-core classes, like gym and electives. And that’s my point, we don’t know what Wisconsin includes when they calculate average GPA in the CDS, and their GPA seems to include only 91.3% of those enrolled anyway (again, C12). Homeschoolers would be in that group, but I doubt there are 8.7% of Wisconsin freshmen that were homeschooled.
When I analyze data from a CDS like Wisconsin’s and I see that 3,350 of the freshman had ACTs less than or equal to 29 (57% * 5875 submitting ACT), it tells me that the CDS average GPA of 3.84 is inflated. Of course, a number of factors can lead to that inflation including high school grade inflation, Wisconsin using gym and other electives to calculate average GPA and/or cherry picking the GPAs they want to use (8.7% of the GPAs of enrolled freshman are seemingly not included). Common data sets provide really helpful information, but IME average GPA isn’t among the most helpful, and can even be misleading.
“@jbstillflying The best source for students to evaluate their chances at any school is their high school’s Naviance admission statistics.”
- Totally agree.
“The average GPA in my kids’ Naviance for Wisconsin is far below 3.84 (line c12 in Wisconsin’s 2017/18 CDS), and our school sends 20-30 kids to Wisconsin every year. Maybe the average GPA in our school’s Naviance would be higher if it included non-core classes, like gym and electives.”
- Our's is total weighted GPA (eyeballing it I can figure out the unweighted but of course that's just a guesstimate). The scattergram should specify what type of GPA is showing up. No doubt the Naviance data for each school is unique to that school due to reporting, grading practices, curriculum, etc.
“And that’s my point, we don’t know what Wisconsin includes when they calculate average GPA in the CDS, and their GPA seems to include only 91.3% of those enrolled anyway (again, C12). Homeschoolers would be in that group, but I doubt there are 8.7% of Wisconsin freshmen that were homeschooled.”
- the CDS instructions were pretty clear (I thought) but hopefully someone can shed light. All schools are supposed to report the CDS data on a consistent basis so that you can compare THAT data across schools using various tools such as College Navigator etc. Only GPA data collected is to be reported. Wisconsin educates about 2% of its students via homeschooling (MN almost 3%). Not sure how that translates into % of UW-Madison freshmen who are homeschooled but I know that homeschooling in the midwest (WI, IA, MN, IL) is more popular than in other parts of the country so it's not unusual to expect some homeschool kids at UW-Madison. Whether that's the source (or only source) of the "missing" GPA's - not sure. Some institutional schools (charter schools, for example) might administer written reports in lieu of a quality grade.
CDS GPA definition/calculation leave room to interpretation. Even though C11 says calc GPA on a 4.0 scale, it does not directly address core vs. non-core classes, and seemingly leaves open the ability to weight advanced and honors courses as seen in the GPA definition. I am certain there are schools who use provided GPAs that are weighted in their average calculation for C11. I do not know specifics of what Wisconsin does. Lastly, CDS reporting is optional, and many schools omit certain sections with regularity.
From CDS guidelines:
CDS Directions for C11: Percentage of all enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students who had high school grade-point averages within each of the following ranges (using 4.0 scale). Report information only for those students from whom you collected high school GPA.
CDS GPA Definition: Grade-point average (academic high school GPA): The sum of grade points a student has earned in secondary school divided by the number of courses taken. The most common system of assigning numbers to grades counts four points for an A, three points for a B, two points for a C, one point for a D, and no points for an E or F. Unweighted GPA’s assign the same weight to each course. Weighting gives students additional points for their grades in advanced or honors courses.
^ Yes but if weighted GPA’s are included then that’s arguably not a 4-point scale. For instance, my son has a reported GPA of over 4.0 but his potential is nearly 4.3 due to a mix of AP/Honors and regular courses. His (calculated) unweighted 4.0-scale GPA is north of a 3.9 and that’s the GPA that UW will pay attention to. They can and actually do use that sort of calculation, based on what other posters have said in the past. And then there is this from their website: “We typically see unweighted, academic GPAs between a 3.8 and a 4.0, and a class rank in the 85-97 percentile.”
They also point out that your GPA and class rank are evaluated in the context of your school and they recognize that schools have different weighting systems (this is why class rank is important, btw, but many schools are dropping any reporting of ranking. My son’s high school doesn’t report it, for instance).
CDS relies on self-reporting and doubtless there are are schools that play fast-and-loose with the numbers. The issue is what does UW-Madison report.
Some things to note. 25% of students will be below the middle range (ie 25-75%). This means that your chances are not zero if you are below certain scores. It also means no guarantees for high scores either. If you can get high test scores you should have matching grades to show you know how to do the work and do it. So students with top test scores, do not slack off. You need good study skills. Also, improving grades mean something, especially those junior year ones.
Chance threads are basically meaningless. We can say anything and everything but it won’t change admissions. So, posters do not rely on us. Look at data briefly and decide if it is worth the costs of applying. Be sure to have other schools on your list. Statistics can be manipulated in many ways.
I look back at gifted son’s numbers. His HS grades reflected boredom by senior year. There is a reason admissions are “holistic”- many variables are considered. There will be clear admits and rejections. However, the majority will fall into that vast pool where there are not enough spaces for the numbers of applicants who could succeed at UW.
Thankfully the state is still thinking of its mission to educate residents of the state.
And I don’t think your too far off, but it’s big news if someone with a 31 or 32 gets denied in-state at Madison. Like I said, 115 kids from my graduating class (more than half) applied here and even with a 3.6, it’s unheard of for someone with at least basic extracurriculars/involvement and a moderate course load to get denied if they’re from Wisconsin or Minnesota. Yeah, out of state is tougher, but my goal here is to instill some hope back into some parents and students who read posts saying that you essentially need a 32 and 3.75 to get in, because the average for out of state is still only a 30 according to advisers here on campus.
@noahkirch sorry if I didn’t catch this before but are you in-state? Obviously there are always going to be WI applicants with concerns posting on CC but most of the exaggerated (to you) thresholds mentioned here concern OOS (see, for instance, @camom01’s comments). Minnesota residents have a 48% admit rate. OOS (non MN) about 50%. Internationals right around 40%. In contrast, in-state residents have a nearly 70% admit rate. Nothing wrong with that, of course - you’d expect the state flagship to favor in-state residents. Wisconsin is also facing system-wide declining enrollment and the effects of significant budget cuts. All of that favors drawing in more non-residents who, with the exception of MN kids, all pay higher tuition.
Nevertheless, there is a sizable (and appropriate) difference between in-state thresholds and OOS. Based on UW’s historical institutional research, the average ACT of an in-state accepted student is about a 28. So the statement on the admissions page about “typically” seeing scores of 28 - 32 for admitted students obviously means that the non-resident pool, which is about 50% of the total admitted, has an ACT that is a few points higher, on average.
It’s titled UW-Madison waitlisted 2022.
There are others admission decision threads but they got broken up so you might need to scroll around
What about the deferred applicants. I’m sure they weren’t thinking “ this is easy” especially when they submitted an application in the Fall and might not have gotten an acceptance offer until March
There are clearly many exceptions but the reported stats are what they are. 30 and 3.9. Can you get in below that of course every application is unique. And 2018 changed a lot especially out of state. They do look at it all. In state totally diff. Ball game. We are now common app and popular among the coasts. For every story of a 26 and 3.5 there is one of a 3.95 and 33 waitlisted. Go to the 2018 thread. All have a chance of course. Look at the thread but it’s holistic and uw loves what you can contribute.
Does anyone know how much your chosen major plays a part in admission?
I’m applying as a history major (from CA) and I do believe I have very strong essay. Will this help me get in? I eventually want to go into politics, policymaking or law.