University outside of the US?

<p>It’s not any more difficult than sending your child over three time zones from one coast to another :-). Getting used to undergrad abroad, well, ok, that is harder. On the other hand, are Brits as focused on grades and ranking as we are across the pond? And living conditions be darned, if I had to live four years in London or Paris it would be “which bridge do I sleep under” instead of Miss Turbo’s golden faucet dorm room in Flagship State U. </p>

<p>And cost is not as big a driver - if one is ready to spend $50k a year for some smaller, cozy LAC in the middle of the woods with unicorns and such, $50k a year for a good overseas school should be a good value…</p>

<p>Grading wise, I seem to remember US cares about B or better, while UK’s passing grade was a LOT lower :-). That was 30 years ago tho. Also depends on major, but overall, yea, it’s a lot more ‘one shot and you’re out’ tests rather than homeworks.</p>

<p>I’m an international student who’s going to college in the US, and while I appreciate the gravity of the concerns expressed in this thread, I always chuckle when Americans start fretting over the idea of a semester abroad, or God forbid, of studying abroad for real. The cultural differences between my country and America are far more pronounced than those between the US and the UK (my native language is not spoken in the US, for one), and yet I find myself looking forward to experiencing them rather than bemoaning my impending separation from my parents.</p>

<p>The fact that you want to settle down in the UK makes going to school there even more understandable. (Personally, I don’t plan to stay in the US after school, but four years I can manage–sorry, three. Because I’d love to study abroad for a year, somewhere even farther away from home. When am I going to travel the world, if not in my youth?)</p>

<p>Anyway. I’d try to get in touch with the UCL administration and ask about the size and cohesion of the American student body there–do Americans have their own student organizations? Can I get in touch with someone and ask about their experiences? Can my parents get in touch with some American parents and ask about their experiences? etc. I know that St. Andrews, which has many American students, provides these services to its prospective students in the US, but UCL may not.</p>

<p>In any case, if you convince your parents you really think UCL is the place for you, and address their fears by putting them in touch with other parents of students in the UK, I think *some *of their apprehension will wear off. Most of it is probably fear of the unknown, and a reluctance to take the idea seriously. If you show them that others have done the exact same thing, and that you are aware of the negatives as well as the positives, and still want to do it, they might be more willing to consider it.</p>

<p>One issue you’ll need to talk over is drinking. Drinking is legal at 18 in the UK, and the pub culture is strong. A pub is different from a bar in many, many ways, but it could be something your parents would be worried about.
Contact the international office to find out about reps visiting. There is a fair held mostly for private high schoolers that usually has a good number of international reps - I recall seeing St. Andys and several others.
UK schools do care more about tests and the personal statement, but they also need to see qualities in American students that show they will cope with the very different system.
Getting a student Visa can be more trouble than you might think - I know some kids who had troubles (no details, sorry).
You probably don’t mean to sound cocky, but you do. I don’t know how UCL admissions rates for Americans compares with Oxbridge, but I can tell you that it is very hard for Americans with top scores to get there.</p>

<p>You might want to look at other UK schools. You’ll apply to UCL through UCAS - and, except for Oxbridge, adding another school takes very little effort.</p>

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<p>From what I can figure out, more so. </p>

<p>It’s odd though. Honors designations do not appear on diplomas for Oxbridge. So you can’t tell from someone’s diploma whether they got a 1st or a 2:1, etc. but your job prospects are very dependent on that. As I understand it, 15% of Oxbridge students get "firsts."They also automatically get M.A.s after a certain # of years, unless they rob a bank or something. At other colleges, it’s the top 10%, and I don’t think you get an “auto” MA. My understanding is that top 10% this is subject specific. Some “courses” are definitely easier than others. </p>

<p>There are issues. One is that if you don’t stay in the UK, you’ll get very little help with job hunting, etc. There’s no “alumni network” to help you and US employers aren’t going to be recruiting on campus. You won’t have internships. You won’t have had “meaningful” summer jobs.</p>

<p>Don’t count on getting a job as an alien. Yes, your student visa will allow you to work a certain # of hours. However, the fact that you are legally permitted to do so doesn’t mean that you’ll be able to do so. As far as I know, the concept of “work study” doesn’t exist there. You’ll be competing for work with non-students who can work unlimited hours. It will help a LOT if you can get a EU passport in terms of work prospects both while in school and afterwards. </p>

<p>I have a kid who got a M.Phil. at Oxbridge. It was a wonderful experience and several years later, she returned and lived in the UK for a couple of years. With the new “point system” for immigration, it helps to have a UK degree. </p>

<p>You aren’t going to want to “hear” this, but you’re only 15 or 16. While right now, it may seem to you that you are POSITIVE this is the degree you want and POSITIVE you’d be happy to remain in the UK after graduation, you may change your mind. The British system is very different than the US one and it’s difficult to switch from one to another. So, if you do go, you really are locked into that major and staying for 3 years.</p>

<p>turbo93- That is essentially my mindset as well. I feel as though my mother is just not comfortable with this unorthodox way of viewing higher education. I will continue to speak to her about this, however! Again, thank you for the look into the grading system. </p>

<p>Ghostt- “When am I going to travel the world, if not in my youth?” I completely agree with this statement. Your outlook on declaring independence in order to take advantage of life’s opportunities is refreshing and wholly understandable. Also, the information you outlined to appease my parents is certainly something that they would appreciate! I will look into American organizations at UCL and attempt to find a way to contact parents of students already studying there, who perhaps faced this very same dilemma. Thank you very much for your response :-)</p>

<p>nemom- Please excuse me for sounding cocky. I was merely trying to justify my position of applying despite the hit my GPA took, which was questioned earlier in the thread. I in no way believe that I am a shoo-in for admissions (as nobody could ever declare this), I was just displaying that the areas in which I accel will aid me in this process. The points that you outlined are certainly areas that my parents would take into consideration heavily. I have an understanding with them about alcohol - I really have no interest in drinking and they trust me on this. Naturally conversation about if I begin doing so abroad due to the culture, my maturity, etc will become prevalent as/if they become more comfortable with the prospects of me studying out of the country. I will certainly research information on student visas, as well as other schools that offer Human Sciences because just as you mentioned, UCAS enables you to apply to multiple schools. </p>

<p>jonri- I’m glad to hear that your daughter had a great and productive experience while studying/living abroad. You know a lot about the British system, which is quite helpful! All of the concerns you outlined are certainly things that must be taken into consideration. Acquiring an EU passport appears to be vital in regards to employment both during and after studying at UCL, so I will do further research on this matter. If the situation did arise where I was not staying in the UK after graduation, would a foreign degree be looked upon negatively or positively? Not just for the reasons you outlined, I mean, in general. I figure that this mainly comes down to if they are aware of UCL’s status. Thank you for your concern about whether or not I feel as though I would still want to pursue this degree in a few years time (a completely valid statement to make). However, I am just going to say that due to this degree’s all-encompassing nature of including matters I am both fascinated with and passionate about (it ties psychology to more ‘textbook’ sciences such as biology), I believe that I will still be just as enthusiastic in years to come. I had been searching for a degree that was beyond standard college psychology and incorporated labs, which is what human sciences entails. I have never wanted anything more than this, which as I only boast sixteen years, doesn’t say too much but it certainly means a lot in perspective. I can only hope that my parents won’t grow too weary of me saying this over the next two years…</p>

<p>A lot of people have commented on how different the British system is. That is certainly true for the most part but there are exceptions. For example, UCL has just implemented a new liberal arts-style degree called “Arts and Sciences” which allows for a much greater level of freedom and choice in what you study. It also includes a summer internship and an optional year abroad.</p>

<p>@OP, you sound very focused and motivated so I think natural sciences @ UCL would be a great fit for you, good luck!</p>

<p>@Jonri, my comments were more towards the, ehem, less than CollegeConfidential material :-). Back in the 80’s we all came from this EU country to the US for school. I had already finished one degree in my home country and was coming here for more, along with a bunch of others who could not get into college in our home country - national exams and all that. </p>

<p>Most of these people ended up in the UK - obviously not at top schools - and they all reported that getting out from the UK was far easier than getting a US degree (engineering and science). Granted, these were not the ‘Chance me for HYP’ type students, but rather, the 2.5 to 3.0 with lots of Jogging 101 classes to bring the GPA up type classes. When the UK started charging in-state (or whatever is called) tuition to all EU students, it was a no brainer for most of them to go there. Tuition was in par with the US (before US tuition went crazy), one could find a room at someone’s house for far less than US dorms (and miss the football, waaaah :-)) and one could actually work legally (the beauty of EU). If one is paying non-EU tuition, can’t work, and all that, I would seriously consider school outside the US only for stuff you can’t study in the US. </p>

<p>The cultural part now - us EU subjects, er, citizens were used to the idea of living abroad, globalization, and all that - had to, with millions of tourists every year and all that. From my 30+ years in the US, many Americans are like that too. Some are not. Parents thought differently back then - we’d get on a train and visit friends in another country for a weekend and our folks would not not flinch.</p>

<p>I do not know right now what admission to good EU schools looks like. I’ll have to find out in a few years as I send one child there.</p>

<p>I believe the UK student VISA will allow you to work for 2 years post-grad if an EU passport situation does not work out</p>

<p>OP, you might like the Comparative Human Development major at UChicago.</p>

<p>@Somemom
The UK student visa doesn’t allow that. There used to be a post-work study visa you could apply for if you got a degree from a uni in the UK, but that’s been scrapped with the new immigration laws.</p>

<p>I also studied in the UK many years ago and loved it. My daughter will be entering UCL next year for her time abroad. I just wonder about two things. What kind of job do you think you will find after your degree from UCL? Can you and your family afford the total cost of three years at UCL? Tuition alone is going to be close to $30,000 and you will not likely get any financial aid.</p>

<p>Perhaps you would like the “Biobehavioral Health” major at Penn State or the “Biological Basis of Behavior” major at the University of Pennsylvania. Many other universities in the U.S. allow you to design your own major.
A couple of things to keep in mind during the college admission process: it is NOT helpful for either student or parent to become entrenched in an idea or position. Flexibility will be your best friend while you go through all of this. And, students who are trying to escape a difficult family situation by going far away should first get counseling to deal with the issues at hand in order to make their time away more successful.</p>

<p>mjscal- I am glad to hear that you enjoyed your experience studying abroad, and congratulations to your daughter! One of the many aspects that attracts me to the Human Sciences major at UCL is the breadth and flexibility it allows when it comes to studies. The syllabus of studies for each of the three years outlines required classes that focus on anything from sociobiology to evolutionary genetics. I aim to work in a scientific field, focusing on psychological aspects of the human condition. What position this entails in the workforce is not clear at the moment as I am open to many different opportunities, however, I hope that my backing in the sciences proves to be just as useful as it is fascinating - it is more than just a degree in psychology, if you know what I mean. As for the financial burden that studying abroad would pose my family with, we are in a position where it is manageable with the aid of minimal loans (my grandparents on both sides are invested in my education, so the weight is shifted slightly from our shoulders directly). </p>

<p>levirm- Both of those majors sound interesting indeed, and I will add them to the list of possibilities accumulating from this thread. Thank you for this insight into the college admissions process as well - I admit that I become a bit ‘stuck’ on an idea when I began to idealize it and this does cause some strife when my parents don’t completely agree with me. I am definitely open to other suggestions when it comes to applying to schools in the U.S., however, I am not willing to forfeit this goal. While I can certainly see why you would believe that I am trying to ‘escape’ a difficult family situation, this isn’t quite the case. And I am seeking pre-death counseling currently, so I wholly concur with your last point.</p>