University outside of the US?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm currently a rising junior, and as is common in most households, discussing my plans for the future with my parents has taken a priority in my life. I've managed to find the ideal university, major (or course as they refer to it in the UK), and have oriented my schedule around increasing my chances of acceptance to this university. </p>

<p>The only problem?</p>

<p>My parents do not want me to attend school out of our region (east coast), let alone in another country! It seems as though they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that studying Human Sciences at University College London is the ideal opportunity and experience for me - as both a student and an independent, mature person. It fit all the criteria that I held whilst looking at schools in the states (city school, large student body, plenty of labs) and MORE, considering the fact that the course I would be applying for is even more accurate to what I want to pursue. My mother says that her main problem with me attending school outside the US is "the distance, especially during the period where you are adapting to a new lifestyle". </p>

<p>Is it selfish of me to want to pursue this further considering the fact that it is MY undergraduate experience that will shape MY future?</p>

<p>So, parents...let me know what qualms you as a parental figure would harbor on this matter and if they could be eased. Any sort of input would be greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>My niece had thoughts of London for college- but she is underage so she’s going here. She did apply to a couple of schools there and had at least one telephone interview. We weren’t crazy about the idea- teens get a lot of ideas that they try out before settling on something that works well.</p>

<p>There is no one school that is the ONLY school. Have you ever been to London? (btw “whilst” is not standard American usage) Can you study the same subjects in the US? Who’s paying for everything? Do you understand the costs- tuition, housing food, transportation?</p>

<p>I suggest that you have several US colleges for backup. Go ahead and apply to see if you get accepted but only if you seriously choose some schools in the US. Consider a semester abroad experience. You will have NO backup for problems if a student there while you would through a US college program. </p>

<p>Why do you think that major would be best there? Do you plan to live in the UK after college? I suggest you do your homework on US colleges as well as that one. What happens if you change your major? Most HS students entering college will- then what? What do you plan to do with this major?</p>

<p>You still have two years left of HS, one before college apps, a lot will happen in the next year. You will note that I have many questions for you to answer for yourself- we don’t need the answers here. Do your college search homework- with pros and cons of both the London school and several in the NE US. A year from now reevaluate. I don’t know enough about your situation, nor do I need to. You need to be convincing to your parents.</p>

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<ol>
<li>London has been mentioned as one of the most expensive places visited by CC parents (there is a thread on that topic in the Parents’ Cafe). </li>
<li>Just an FYI - US employers and graduate schools could require verification of foreign diplomas though some education verification agencies. You will have to pay a hefty fee every time this is requested. I’m positive that no US employer would question a degree from ASU, but a degree from 'University College London" might raise some eyebrows.</li>
<li>Many US colleges offer study abroad programs, and the UK seems to be a very popular destination. You can do a semester or a year abroad. Why not take advantage of this opportunity?</li>
</ol>

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<p>I live in London and I can testify that it is extemely expensive - and I have a good salary. A friend of mine (British) attended UCL and has a lot of debt - this was before tuition fees so this debt is just living expenses…</p>

<p>There are posts in the study abroad forum by a lady called Cupcake. Read them to understand the differences of studying fulltime in the UK. Also read the couple of threads on the parents forum about St Andrews, where a couple of families have been shocked by the difference in teaching styles between the US and UK…you must remember that the system is very different here and is designed to fit with British A Level students who have been educated in this way…</p>

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<p>Another point to consider - back in the dark ages when I was in college it was considered ‘common knowledge’ that for foreign students at least the UK was a lot friendlier (GPA and even tuition wise) than the US in many cases. Of course this could be simply because we were EU students so things like work permits were not an issue. GPA wise it was believed that it was a lot easier to graduate from the UK than from the US (we’re talking average schools, not elites) since the base for passing in the UK was lower than in US. Of course, that was thirty years ago and my friends who transferred from Directional State U’s to the UK were certainly not HYP material by any stretch :-)</p>

<p>Things today may be different, but it would pay out to research schools a lot more. If one is not an EU citizen (and depending on where your parents or grandparents are from it’s may not be as difficult to get an EU passport :-)) things are different… Also depending on what you want to study - there are some very interesting programs for art and architecture, for example, that one would have a hard time finding in the US - plus an EU degree helps with the licensing procedures.</p>

<p>I came to the US for more college in the early 80’s and thought nothing of it, and neither did my parents (dorm shopping takes a whole new meaning if all you can carry is two suitcases :-)). But if one is already in the US, unless cost is not an issue, I would consider local schools especially in an area rich in good schools (east coast).</p>

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<p>Thank you for your input!</p>

<p>wis75- Yes, I went to London this past February on a school-based program. I am well aware that no school is the “only school” for any individual - but shouldn’t it be alright to set goals? It is no different from someone working towards HYPSM while still keeping safeties in mind (something that I am doing by looking at schools in the US). It is hard to say whether or not the same degree (Human Sciences) is offered in the US considering the vast amount of areas of study it encompasses, hovering between anthropology, biology and psychology giving you a course that you can ‘customize’ for your projected field of study in grad school. I will certainly take your points into consideration as I continue my research of schools (something that I have done a hefty amount of already) over the course of the next two years. Ah, and I suppose using that word has just become a bit of a habit. </p>

<p>BunsenBurner- Finances was the one area that I was actually concerned about seeing as though it is indeed true that London is ridiculously expensive, even without the added burden of an unfavorable exchange rate. I have looked into how many hours I would be able to work as a foreigner, as well as job opportunities offered by the university. I understand your concern over my international degree transferring, but seeing as though UCL is consistently ranked #4 in the world (some sources say 21st but they are not accurate), I am not as worried. I have heard that while the average US citizen is not familiar with this university, it is viewed favorably upon in my field of interest. My only concerns with semesters & years abroad is the discontinuity. While I would leap upon any chance to travel and experience the world, the idea of building up my activities, classes, friendships, etc back home only to leave is a bit worrying as I do not know how it would impact my progression in those areas. </p>

<p>SoccerGirlNYC- Thank you, I will definitely look into what you mentioned.</p>

<p>turbo93- Actually, part of the reason why I feel as though studying in the UK would benefit me is because my GPA is not quite where I want it to be. It took a hit this year (personal problems at home being a major factor) that may have essentially barred me from looking at the schools I was considering earlier. This being the case, I believe that if I can get a quality education outside of the country at a school that is highly ranked and esteemed in a city that I would have every intention of living in, why should I ignore the possibility? Also, in regards to tuition money, it is on some level more affordable considering the fact that we would only have three years of tuition to pay, as the undergraduate degree in my course of choice can be achieved in that time. My grandparents are from Ireland, so I will certainly pursue the EU passport point further!</p>

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<p>zestrokes -</p>

<p>The Human Sciences program at UCL does look very interesting, and I can understand the attraction. However, you should be able to put together a very similar program at any college or university in the US that has a division formerly known as Home Economics. To start with, take a look at the College of Human Ecology at Cornell U, and the College of Health and Human Development at Penn State.</p>

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<p>I attended University College London as a Junior Year Abroad. It was an amazing, life-changing experience. This was back in the 80s when the exchange rate was very favorable for the U.S.
Some things to be aware of, however (and of course this is based on my personal experience way back when so take it with a large grain of salt):

  • The English, as a generalization, are much more reserved and less outgoing than Americans. I lived in a dorm (a few miles from campus) and was shocked when I moved in at the start of the year and found the doors to the rooms all closed. No one said “hi” or introduced themselves. No one. I felt very alone until I met some students from the U.S. and other countries (still keep in touch with a friend from Germany). Eventually I had an English boyfriend, but I STILL didn’t feel like I really understood the English social situations most of the time.
  • The English education system is very different from the U.S. Bachelor’s degrees are mostly 3-year programs. The student is expected to be very responsible for their own learning, more so than at U.S. colleges. Grades are almost exclusively based on exams that take place at the end of each year.
  • Obvious, but you will, indeed, be very far from home. (My father was an airline pilot which made traveling much easier and less expensive.)</p>

<p>That’s all I can think of at the moment!</p>

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<p>OP- where do you plan to live as an adult?</p>

<p>UCL is a fine institution. Can you cite your source that it is considered the #4 university in the world? My company recruits all over the world- and of course we have our own rankings- but while UCL is certainly in the top 10 for the UK it is nowhere near the top 10 globally. </p>

<p>If you were my child I’d be happy to entertain the thought of a foreign institution, as long as you were pretty much set on settling in that country/region as an adult.</p>

<p>UCL does not have the name recognition in Asia, or the rest of Europe, as it does in Britain, let alone the US, so I would tread very carefully with your mom who may actually know what she’s talking about.&lt;/p>

<p>What happens if like most American kids you get to college and decide to change your major? You are stuck in London without a backup plan.</p>

<p>Is your family budget ready to absorb the costs of getting you back and forth during the summer, and for a trip for your parents to either visit you at Xmas or Easter? You have LOOONG breaks at a UK university, and traveling is expensive as well even if your plan is to backpack and eat frugally.</p>

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<p>The longer you live abroad the higher the chance that you will eventually settle there. That is why parents are fine with a semester or year abroad but less comfortable with a multi-year commitment. I lived in Switzerland for 4 years after graduate school, and it was very difficult to return the US. At the end of 3 or 4 years the majority of your close relationships, perhaps even a life partner, will be from your local environs. Personally, I felt much more ‘at home’ in Europe, but I couldn’t handle the separation from my immediate family. I was lucky my European spouse was fine with moving back to the US, but for many people that is not the case. But it is your life, and you clearly are not making this decision on a whim. I doubt you will ever regret your decision if you go. Good Luck!</p>

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<p>happymomof1- Thank you for this information! I hadn’t considered Cornell or Penn State before knowing that they provided these educational opportunities. I will certainly keep them in mind and present the option of putting together such a program to my mother should she maintain this mindset. At the moment I would consider both of them to be a bit of a reach…however, I will see how my junior year goes because I intend to make up for my shortcomings last year. </p>

<p>inspiredbymusic- I’m glad to hear that your experience abroad was as positive and life-changing as you say it was. Your ‘insider information’ as I would regard it is very insightful. Part of the appeal of studying in the UK is based around the fact that their undergraduate courses are 3 year programs - mainly because they cut the fat, so to speak. If I am studying Human Sciences, I will not have to take an irrelevant math class. I am very driven when it comes to my studies and fully confident that a program based around my willingness to learn the material will be successful. Studying far from home, while not traditional in many situations, is actually quite appealing to me. </p>

<p>blossom- Ideally, I would love to settle down in the UK - specifically England. Naturally that comes down to availability of jobs and the willingness of employers to hire by nature of visas & other limitations for how long I will be able to stay in their country. My sources for UCL being ranked fourth in the world are U.S. News’ “World’s Best Universities: Top 400” posted in September of 2010, as well as “QS World University Rankings 2010/2011”. I am sure that most people have heard this time and time again, however, I am certain that this is the major for me. It is all encompassing in terms of my interests and passions. As for the financial aspect of traveling, we have been putting aside money for quite some time in order to ease any expenses I would encounter in regards to higher education. There are many job opportunities within UCL that I would take advantage of, and as a thifty person, I believe the burden will not be quite as heavy as say, day to day expenditures</p>

<p>educ8me- Thank you very much for this insight. Hearing about other’s personal stories in regards to this matter is quite interesting, and I’m sure the experiences you had while in Europe were worth a lifetime. It’s nice to see that things worked out well for you. Also - you are very accurate in stating that I am not making this decision on a whim!</p>

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<p>What state do you live in? If you visit the websites of the public universities in your home state that offer agricultural science type majors, you are likely to be able to find out what their former Colleges/Divisions of Home Economics now call themselves. Lots of them seem to use “Family and Consumer Sciences”, but I’ve also seen “Human Sciences”. </p>

<p>A search for institutions offering “Family and Consumer Sciences/Human Sciences” at College Navigator, finds 337 institutions that offer Bachelor’s Degree level programs in that general subject area in the US. If you thin the list down a bit more by region of the country, maybe you will find something that will work for you. [College</a> Navigator - Search Results](<a href=“College Navigator - Search Results”>College Navigator - Search Results)</p>

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<p>If the school is so highly rated and you state lesser than top grades- what makes you think they will even admit you? Would you be able to be set free for a semester and do the work consistently so you actually learn it instead of just cramming for an end of the term final? It can take a lot more discipline than here. Also- how will you know if you are not getting some concepts before it is too late to learn them? Finding out from posts that “Human Sciences” is more like home ec than traditional hard sciences makes me wonder how such a degree there would be of much value outside the UK. Can be very hard to be an outsider in the English culture compared to the American concept of everyone or their ancestors being from somewhere else.</p>

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<p>happymomof1- I live in Massachusetts. UCL defines their Human Sciences program as, “…the advanced discoveries in human biological function to be studied in combination with the behavioural insights provided by social science”. I do not find this to correlate directly with a home ec sort of degree, but I may be mistaken. That link is very useful, thank you!</p>

<p>wis75- As stated previously, it is merely my GPA that took a hit due to an ongoing family situation. I am a responsible student and I test well consistently. Since admissions through UCAS for Americans is based primarily off of AP scores and SAT scores, I am confident that my application will be looked favorable upon. They disregard GPAs and focus on how an individual tests - which is an area I shine in. I am certainly no slacker. See the reply above to happymomof1, or perhaps the UCL page for Human Sciences if you have any concerns about the scientific value of the course. Human Sciences is a course that spans many, many areas of science (genetics, physiology, biochemistry, anatomy) and ties them in to relative areas of human interactions (psychology, anthropology), thus allowing the student to pick and choose classes to have a more customized course based on what they want to pursue after graduating.</p>

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<p>Well, find a way to convince your parents of your ability to do well on your own - consider a summer activity that will demonstrate this. My child applied overseas with my blessings (ended up going elsewhere). It is important that you take a hard look at the finances. You will almost certainly be a full pay student, plus you’ll need some considerable amount of money for transportation. If you stay over vacations, you will need money for that as well.
You’ll need around $36,000 + transportation for each year.
You will also need to be very sure of your course - the British system is very different - changing your course may not be feasible.
You may be required to take an extra year as the US high school degree is not generally quite as advanced as the UK.</p>

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<p>You should also be aware of the very different timeline for UK college admissions. Your application will be due much earlier than for most US schools.</p>

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<p>nemom- I will certainly look into a summer program that would lead my mother to look favorably upon my capabilities of being away from home for extended periods of time/fending for myself on some fronts. In regards to changing courses it is true that their system is quite strict when it comes to that - in most cases you have to wait and reapply the next year for a new course, essentially entering your first year of university again. Thankfully I will not face this sort of dilemma seeing as though I am wholeheartedly set on Human Sciences. Admissions for American applicants certainly require more out of a student for the very reason that you mentioned. Luckily, UCL has expressed that achieving 4s and 5s on AP exams are comparable to their own A-Level exams. Thus, if I score 4s and 5s and write a great personal statement, I will be all set. The other option they pose is to score a certain SAT score and attend a year of university in the States, which I do not prefer. In regards to the financial aspect of all of this, I aim to ease that burden in any way that I can before, during, and after my prospective enrollment. Applications to UCL are open from September 1st - June 30th. However, those who want to study medicine must apply by October 15th and any applications received after January 15th may not be guaranteed full consideration. I will certainly have my application in before this date. :-)</p>

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<p>OP - If you go to Florida State University, you can spend your first 12 months of college at the FSU London Campus which is near the British Museum. Maybe your parents would go for that. FWIW, FSU will give you in state tuition after that, and they are generous with AP credit. They have a pretty interesting First Year Abroad program.</p>

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<p>I am an American who went to the UK for undergrad, though I’m not in London. </p>

<p>It is definitely not something that is for everyone. You have to be prepared to only be able to come home and see your family once a year, or maybe even less, depending on how much money your family can afford to spend on plane tickets. If you’re not willing or able to have that kind of separation from your immediate family, then doing your degree abroad isn’t for you.</p>

<p>You also have to understand that the education system is totally different, and so is the social aspect of university.</p>

<p>In the UK, learning is entirely more self-directed. You’ll have lectures once or twice a week for your courses, and probably one tutorial, but if you’re doing a humanities course, you’ll have to read a lot of books on your own time to get the necessary background material. Your grades will be based heavily on exams at the end of modules, and maybe one or two essays. If you screw those things up, there won’t be any homework grades to save you.</p>

<p>UCL is also a top school. (I can’t remember if it is a Russell uni or not). You will struggle to get good marks; it is nearly impossible to get higher than an 80% on an essay. To even score that high, your work generally has to be regarded as of a publishable standard. Don’t come and expect it to be easy, because it definitely won’t be.</p>

<p>Lastly, the university culture is just much different here. There isn’t really any kind of “school spirit”. There are sports teams, but no one really cares about them or how they do unless you’re on them. There are no football matches that everyone goes to and shows their spirit at. Drinking is also big. If you don’t want to drink, you can find people who also won’t, but that’s a lot harder than finding people who do want to go out and drink.</p>

<p>I should also note that housing is different. In first year, you pick catered (sort of like dorm living in the US) or selfcatered (living in a flat where you cook your own food), and after first year, you have to find your own flat in London; the uni only provides housing for first year. </p>

<p>So, uh, yeah. I feel as though I’ve touched on a lot of negatives in the post. I have loved my time in the UK, and I am so glad I chose to move over here. It’s a lot of fun. However, it isn’t a decision that should be made lightly.</p>

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<p>MidwestMom2Kids-I had never really considered FSU - mainly because I was not aware of such a program. Part of the reason I want to attend UCL for the entirety of my undergraduate experience is because it would be far more immersing than a study abroad program. Please correct me if I am wrong, but is that FSU program a bit more isolating in terms of American students surrounded by primarily fellow Americans? The facilities on the FSU London Campus seem to be quite impressive, and this is an option that I will look into for sure. </p>

<p>Spriteling- Thank you for your response. I’m glad to hear that enjoyed your time in the UK and made the decision to move! Your breakdown of how the university system truly works in the UK, as well as what the experience is really like, has been IMHO the most useful. On the subject of returning home, I am not particularly worried about how frequently I will see my family. I’ve always been this way, really. My mother will protest for sure and most likely ship me home once or twice a year, but I will be comfortable with that amount of immediate contact. There’s always Skype and phone calls! </p>

<p>Providing me with that look into the grading/educational aspect of UK university has been very helpful. While strikingly different from how American schools function and a system that will take time to get used to, it should certainly be possible to do so. I am willing to work hard for my grades. Due to UCL’s status as a top university I did not anticipate studying there to be a walk in the park. </p>

<p>This is good to hear, actually! I’m not really the sort that is into, say, the football scene in some southern colleges here in the US. I’ve always oriented my search for universities around avoiding those sort of schools (usually just because frats/sororities tend to follow suit). </p>

<p>I have been looking into these self-catered and catered options. I enjoy cooking for myself and others so the self-catered option is appealing, however, I don’t want to be spending a fortune on groceries every week. What option did you choose, and which one seems to be the most prevalent?</p>