<p>to apply to such and such a school. How does that make sense? A 2200 total score according to the last data I found equated to a 99% percentile rank. Okay, so it was not 99+%. But are you telling me only the top 1% of students as measured by combined SAT scores are worthy of a passing glance at any of the top 30 institutions? </p>
<p>My son's combined SAT is 2030 which places him in the 94% percentile, but apparently that excludes him from even a nominal consideration at any Ivy League + M.I.T. and Stanford, the top 5-7 LACs, and most top public universities as an OOS. Apparently even w/7 APs, the remainder honors courses and a 3.8UW GPA, he should also forget about applying to schools like Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Emory, Vanderbilt and Boston College. I mean he is barely ballpark even if he was a legacy.</p>
<p>Even more amazing are the kids w/2200+ SAT scores and 4.0 GPA that get rejected by not 1 or 2, but several schools.</p>
<p>And yet it seems more than half the people on CC quote their stats as 2200+ SAT, 3.8-4.0 UW GPA w/great essays and ECs that border on having cured cancer. Just look at the accepted threads for the top 20-30 ranked schools, and top 5 LACs. What are the other 99% of people doing that are not here posting on CC about the great school to which they were accepted?</p>
You’ve answered your own question. There are kids who are accepted with lower stats, but they usually have something else going for them. And no one generally gets into the top schools on numbers alone.</p>
<p>Your son should apply if he wants to, but he better have some matches and safeties he is happy with, or he may find himself in a tough spot in April…</p>
<p>Yes, it sort of makes sense … there are about 3 million high school seniors in the US … the top 1% of all seniors is about 30,000 students. Similar idea as students posting that they are top 10 at their high school … there are about 30,000 high schools in the US … so there are about 300,000 students in the top 10 of their high schools. BTW - the naviance results from my kid’s high school show more leeway on SATs and GPAs then often claimed on CC but those lowere scores and GPAs are exceptions … the vast majority of top 20 university and LAC admissions are 2200+ SATs and 3.9+ GPAs, at least from my kid’s high school.</p>
<p>This forum gives a skewed vision of what typical scores are, and it also creates the false impression (which a lot of other media feeds into) that these most selective schools are a big chunk of the overall college-going population. In fact, they are a tiny percentage of all college kids–less than 1%.</p>
<p>I have a feeling you need to vent, but I will comment. Yes, I do think it’s gotten even crazier in the 4 years since S applied. It’s not a good thing for anyone–the students, the parents, or the schools.</p>
<p>I can’t comment on the other schools, but the recent email I received from Notre Dame said the average admitted student was in the top 2% of their class, that 1/2 the 2400 SAT’s were rejected, that of 1,000 valedictorians applying, 700 were rejected, and the average SAT was 1442 (Math and CR). So, yeah, if you remove the recruited athlethes, the URMs, and the legacies, it is very difficult to be admitted.</p>
<p>CC is a very skewed population. The first few years I lurked and read, I was amazed. Who knew there were so many kids like this? There were competitions (Intel, etc) that no one at my kids’ school had ever even known. Etc. etc.</p>
<p>The other 99% of kids are getting their college education elsewhere; many of which are very good schools. I feel cc has an east coast bias. There are many good schools in the midwest and south which don’t get their due on these forums. They are out there; you just aren’t reading about them in the posts.</p>
<p>I am convinced applying to college requires a LOT of due diligence research and if financial aid is needed, casting a wide and deep net. The difference I have seen in aid offers (for the same kid) over the years is truly eye-opening.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your point is other than you think a kid with less than a 2200 on the SAT should not apply to certain elite schools. Is that your point? </p>
<p>I don’t agree with that. I think a kid like your son should apply to elite schools. The worse thing that can happen is that they say no. </p>
<p>No big deal. </p>
<p>He will still get into a great school. </p>
<p>I do not envy the proud parents here. They should be proud of their kids. If my kids had a 2200 SAT or 8.5 GPA I’d be proud too. If my kids did some of the stuff I read about here with regards to EC’s and leadership I’d be telling people I know about it too. Good for them. It is something worth sharing. </p>
<p>My kids are strong in some areas that don’t show up on SAT’s or GPA’s. I’m not saying they are bad in those areas but there does come a point when you have to seriously geek out to know everything and for my kids I am glad they haven’t become geeks and nerds just to get an extra .1 of GPA or 40 points more on the SAT. My kids have pretty good EC’s and leadership stuff going on too. </p>
<p>Some of these same proud parents start threads about how depressed, stressed and out of control their kids are once they get into college too. </p>
<p>So, be happy with what you are and what you can do and try not to worry about the other side of the street. By the way, before anyone attacks me personally I don’t know your kids. I did not say your kids were all geeks and nerds. Some kids are just plain brilliant. Some study too much and end up ruining their social skills in the process. </p>
<p>My kids are smart enough for most jobs and have good to great social skills and if that isn’t good enough for some school out there, hey, no problem. The root of much unhappyness is comparing oneself to others too much. It is better to be who and what you are and reach as high as you can and never stop growing without worrying about being the best at anything (sports, academics, research) to the point that you become so competitive that you stop being happy.</p>
<p>I’ve found that in general, people on CC tend to be more upper-middle class and go to schools where it is more common to apply to the top colleges. There are many issues that come up on CC that don’t exists at the average school, things like worrying about how only one person gets accepted to Harvard a year, being upset over the fact that person A got into this school but person B with higher stats didn’t, and even Naviance. So basically in general, CC doesn’t accurately represent the applicant pool. There are people at top schools with sub-2000 SAT scores, (and these aren’t just limited to URMs, athletes and legacies as people claim), they probably just aren’t easily found on CC></p>
<p>srysstress: So you’re telling me there’s a chance (to quote Lloyd from the movie: Dumb and Dumber). That’s how I felt reading your post re:Notre Dame. So reading the several quick posts tells me not to give up, but be very, very realistic about what to expect. The traditional scattershot approach is like: 2 reaches, 7-8 possible in-range choices, 2 safeties. Does that still make sense as conventional wisdom, assuming you know which schools are really matches and safeties? Bottom line: a lot of schools I thought might be in-range appear now to be real reaches.</p>
<p>ACCecil, I do think kids w/less than 2200 SATs should apply to the top schools, I just get disappointed to hear so many people say it is being unrealistic. You make several good points.</p>
<p>Each school’s Common Data Set (usually found by searching on its web site) should show the middle range (25th to 75th percentile) of SAT and ACT scores, as well as high school GPA ranges of entering freshmen. You can use those to get an idea of whether a school is a reach, match, or safety from a tests and grades standpoint (but remember that extracurriculars and other stuff matter also). Don’t forget that a safety should also be affordable in terms of net cost after non-loan financial aid.</p>
<p>This forum gives a skewed vision of what typical scores are
So true.</p>
<p>BTW, I do not believe for one minute that Notre Dame turned down half of its applicants who had 2400 scores. I think those Fightin’ Irish have been kissin’ the Blarney Stone.</p>
<p>you will also notice that many elite schools are trying to become more diverse in their student populations. one way to do that is to not admit 100% of an incoming class based purely on best of best top SAT scores and GPA’s </p>
<p>if you do that its like a star trek convention. lots of geeks and nerds around. </p>
<p>so, in my opinion, kids like mine aren’t losing anything by not getting into a school that we both know (me and my kids) they won’t be happy at. we might apply to one long shot school anyway. if we don’t get in we won’t be bitter. i respect smart people but honest to God I know plenty of really smart “academic” type people that are funtionally worthless in the Real World. they are book smart. they can BS well. but they can’t handle practical problems because they worry and over analyze virtually everything. </p>
<p>i could, if i wanted, write a 40 page paper about almost any mundane topic and 99% of it would be BS. that is basically what folks like that are good for. </p>
<p>i wouldn’t want to be at a school full of folks like that. diversity is good. if nothing else it gets you away from the people that are just too smart for their own good.</p>
<p>Minor point here - don’t really disagree with what you’re writing… But when people talk about the top 1% of SAT scores this represents around 15K students, because only around 1.5M take this test (may be closer to 2M now). Generally these test takers, along with those who take the ACT, are higher schievers than the total high school pool. THese days, a huge chunk of kids take both.</p>
<p>Also, remember that not all of the 3M seniors are going to a four year college straight out of high school.</p>
<p>As to the OP’s question -
I’ve posted this a couple times before, but rather than dig it back up, here’s acceptance data from our local high school - Lot’s of kids with <2200 SAT managed to find at least someplace to go to school.</p>