<p>First time poster: Been lurking a while. I have a junior daughter who won't study for sats/acts -anything! I am incredibly disappointed and don't know if I should let it go or try to force her (hahahah). We went and looked at Cornell...she loved it! Took her ACTs totally blind; she wouldn't even really look at the format. I told her the night before to answer every question and she said "I will get points off for that!" Told her to guess and that it was different than the SATs. She said she didn't even come close to finishing any sections and guessed on last ten or so. She ended up with composite of 27. SAT's from 10th grade ( no studying) was 1800. PSATS from junior year were 202. She is recruitable athlete-going to be a stretch for her to play/harder at DIV I as opposed to DIV III because of size but possible. So basically she is scheduled to take SATs again in Jan and has not done anything to study or improve score. She says Cornell/Tufts are her dream schools but does nothing. Lays around/watches Dr Phil. Still gets great grades etc but I am seriously disappointed. To the point I regret all the nice things I bought her for Xmas etc. It is me? She obviously will still get into college...what should I do? I feel like this is something she will look back at and say "Why didn't you make me....Why did you let me quit piano (ish)? " How do I get over this or make her do something for her own good?:
t</p>
<p>It’s time for Blossom’s line: “Love the kid on the couch”. Maybe she’ll go to Cornell for grad school if she’s not ready to do what it takes now.</p>
<p>I’m trying. Not working. Quote: To whom much is given much is expected. Just seems that everything her life has been pretty good. Very smart, pretty well off, innate athletic ability, popular, attractive…never really had to work hard. Just hoping something else kicks in…but why would it? Disappointed. Tried to tell myself …and her…that she will end up where she should be. If she doesn’t want to work hard or have it “in her” then she shouldn’t end up at Cornell and that is ok and she will end up where she should be. Just not sure if I am disappointed in her or in myself…does that make sense?</p>
<p>I think I know how you feel. You wonder if by giving her too much, you have taken away her motivation or drive to do well.</p>
<p>No advice, but you are not alone. So frustrating.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think I overcompensated for my crappy childhood. There is something to be said for a struggle. Besides therapy :)</p>
<p>Someone I knew in college: pretty girl, came from a well to do family (father was a lawyer), smart, but spend more time partying rather than studying. Her father drove up by himself to see her one day. He took her out to dinner and asked her, “Have I taken care you and your mother well? Do you like the life style you’ve had so far? Vacation, nice clothes, car, allowance? Well, I just want to tell you that the life style you have grown accustom to is going to an end when you are out of college unless you could provide it for yourself.” After that conversation, this girl kicked into high gear. She went to a top law school and became a general counselor at a large corporation.</p>
<p>I would have a conversation with your daughter about what it would take to get into those schools. Let her know how much you would be willing to pay for her college education. What minimum GPA you would expect for you to continue to fund her education. Would you be paying for her grad school? Would she be on her own after college graduation? As a parent the only thing you could do is to give them the best information and provide as many options to them as possible. After that, it is up to them to do what they will with it.</p>
<p>FYI - she is still not too late with testings. Many juniors take their SAT I in April and June, some even in the fall of senior year. D1 didn’t get tutored for SAT until spring of junior year, and she did fine.</p>
<p>I don’t think that by giving her too much, she has lost her motivation. She’s a 16 or 17 year old, for goodness sake! But I don’t tell my D that she’ll end up where she should be. I tell her that if she doesn’t give it 150%, she’ll regret it later. I don’t know anyone my age who now regrets that they worked too hard in high school - ah, the contrary, we all realize now that we could have done much more.</p>
<p>Are her friends highly motivated or is she the top achiever in her group? Some kids seem to just want to “get by” and they don’t think that it is worthwhile to make the extra effort to go to the next level when their friends already think that they are smarter than most. High achieving friends can be very motivational and low achieving friends can help kill motivation. If this is the case, it needs to be discussed.</p>
<p>The fact that she loves Cornell, yet she can’t make the connection between the target SAT range and her likelihood of acceptance indicates that she doesn’t have a grasp on the practicalities of the situation. I suggest that she not take the SATs in January and instead wait until March with the hope that she matures a bit. I would make her understand that while all of this is ultimately her decision, she is capable of much more and her lack of effort now could turn into a great regret later in life.</p>
<p>I also don’t believe by giving her too much she has lost motivation, but it is something many parents fear. We tend to blame ourselves for all of our children’s mistake.</p>
<p>My pediatrician used to say that motivation was the one thing you could not teach. There’s not much point in her applying to Cornell at this level, even if she gets the big recruitment talk from the coach. She’s not going to flourish there, and you can see that already. While there may be some soft spots for athletes, the important courses are loaded with very hard working kids, like son’s freshman Chem class of 700+ study nerds.
You’ve got to accept the kid you have, and work to find a great fitting college for her.</p>
<p>Still, she’s very young and many this age are lazy. Fortunately, this is not necessarily a predictor for the rest of her life. I’d give her a figurative kick in the butt and explain bluntly that things won’t work out exactly as she might like if she doesn’t start to motivate and become engaged in the process. If she is as smart as you say that she is, I’m sure she’d do great at Cornell - it’s not all study nerds taking chemistry. </p>
<p>I’d drop the line that she’ll end up where she should be - it’s a very mixed message. Leave it for if (hopefully not!) she is rejected from her top school.</p>
<p>She is definitely considered the “smart one” and not surrounded by highly motivated kids. The kids that she hangs out with are the popular and athletic ones. The principal actually commented on her high PSAT scores numerous times & not sure the school has ever had a NMSF or anything like that. One commended student last year. Kids do get into good schools occasionally but usually more for athletic reasons that sky high stats. I realize her stats aren’t that great by CC standards. I don’t want her to go to a school she can’t handle academically but was hoping that being around more motivated college students might motivate something in her. What…I don’t know. Just not to buy a McMansion next to her best friend from high school and have kids at the same time 
(big dream around here).</p>
<p>I think I will go with give 150% and try to lay off the you end up where you deserve to be. Even though I want to threaten. </p>
<p>By tutoring- do you mean prep classes or individual tutoring. It seems like the prep classes cater to strategy and not actual learning. She is really low on math…she took ALG 1/GEO in 7th and 8th grade. ALG II in 9th and it seems that she has forgotten it all. Her PSAt was really high in reading and writing. Any recommendations if I can talk her into it. </p>
<p>I just hate to give up/close door now. She might be really motivated again by Sept of Senior year but really needs to plan for SAT II’s in spring and have great SAT or ACT by the time summer athletic camps start. Plus I don’t really want to spend 1100 on sport camp for the summer at IVY league schools she can’t get into academically. STUPID 16 YEAR OLDS!</p>
<p>Sounds like you care more than she does about going to Cornell. She sounds like a bright kid who will probably be a late bloomer. If it helps, if she decides to go to graduate school, that will be what counts with employers, not undergrad.</p>
<p>But - since she has the grades, can you afford private tutoring for the SAT (if she does better on the SAT than ACT, as it appears she might). But whatever test, if she has a private tutor she will probably do the work as she can’t sit in back of the class and do nothing. And she may just do well enough for a decent school.</p>
<p>Is she good enough at her sport to get recruited at a smaller, but still prestigious school (not Cornell but a good LAC)? Being a recruited athlete will give her a big leg up.</p>
<p>Do you have a good state school? If she is not motivated, then maybe a state school with an honors program so that if she gets motivated she can go into classes with other bright kids, and no graduate program will penalize a student for going to state school. In this economy students turn down Ivies for state schools due to the tuition.</p>
<p>I would take yourself out of the equation and let her make it “her thing” - with the help of a tutor. Then let her apply to her dream school but also some “good matches”. A friend’s child who was desperate to go to Yale (and had the grades and scores) got rejected and went to Boston College kicking and screaming and now loves it there…</p>
<p>dazd,</p>
<p>From someone who is a year in front of you with the student athlete (although not an Ivy level type), here are a couple of thoughts…</p>
<p>It’s not the message. It is the messenger. You may not have realized it, but you have entered the stupidest 10 years of your life. You have to realize that during the first 15 or so years, we parents are the all knowledgable people who get them to where they want to be in life. Suddenly, around the age of 15, they develop the “I know what I am doing” attitude and suddenly, we parents don’t know anything. This lasts until about age 25 when they exit adolesence and suddenly they realize how difficult adult life is and once again look to us for our wisdom.</p>
<p>At this age, it is invaluable to have someone else who the teenager looks up to (closer to a peer) to deliver the necessary messages.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So true. Some kids want the goodies (top school, great grades) but just aren’t motivated enough to do the work. My son was certain he wanted to attend MIT. We took him up to visit after 9th grade, had the GC at his school sit down and explain to him what he would need to do to get into MIT. She felt it was within his reach (based upon his aptitude and grade history) but told him he would high A’s to get in.</p>
<p>Son didn’t do the work. He has good grades/scores but not high enough to get into MIT. He could have gotten the grades if he had work just a little bit harder but ultimately he chose not to. He’s one of those kids who can pull off good grades with a minimal amount of effort - so that’s all he’s going to give. He is a NMSF and he managed to get a 31 on the ACT but we made him study for 30 minutes a night (in front of us) and take a practice exam every weekend for about 3 weeks leading up to the exam. We had to threaten to take away his car in order to get him to do it. He had previously taken a SAT prep course (summer between 10 and 11th grade) but refused to do the homework. His SAT was good but not stellar, he ended doing better on the ACT. Not sure if the fact that we made him study helped or if he’s just one of those kids that does better on the ACT. He scored very well on the ACT in 7th grade for the Duke TIP program.</p>
<p>We did everything we could to try and get him to see that there would be consequences to not doing the work he needed to do over the last few years but it didn’t motivate him. Unlike the OP - almost all my son’s friends are top students at a highly competitive private school. A few of them will go to HYP next fall. Even that didn’t motivate him much. IMHO, there is a lot of truth to the ‘you end up where you should be’ statement. I won’t necessarily phrase it like that but she should know that she’s not likely get into Cornell unless she puts some effort into it. There’s nothing wrong with requiring her to put in a set amount of regular studying time leading up to the test but ultimately, it is her decision whether to take it seriously or not.</p>
<p>Good luck - you are not alone in this frustration. This was the point when I began to realize a lot of this is out of my control. A 17 year old is certainly capable of deciding whether they are willing to do the work necessary to get the highest score they are capable of achieving or whether they really don’t care enough to put in the effort.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Can you put that on a bumper sticker?</p>
<p>I would add that age 25 is the point at which they start whining 'You should have made me" and suddenly it is all your fault!</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CORN.png[/url]”>http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CORN.png</a></p>
![http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CORN.png[/url]](http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CORN.png%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>I think that looking at scatterplots is a great way to visually show a kid how real life applicants fared. </p>
<p>ACT 27 = 1220 (1830 out of 2400, let’s say). Taking a look at the Cornell scatterplot, of those with ACT scores of 32 (approximately 2100 out of 2400) and below, only one was accepted.</p>
<p>If Cornell is a goal, then she can see how high the bar is set and decide for herself how much work she is willing to put into it.</p>
<p>[My D said that she felt time crunched on the ACT. Not so on the SAT, but then with the SAT, you had to figure out the “trick.”]</p>
<p>*I feel like this is something she will look back at and say "Why didn’t you make me…Why did you let me quit piano (ish)? " How do I get over this or make her do something for her own good?:
*</p>
<p>My older son needed a bit of a “kick start” in regards to practicing for tests. I followed the Dr. Phil way…He always says, What’s your kid’s currency? For my son it was going to the movies (he was also a junior at the time).</p>
<p>So, I said, if you do 2 or 3 sections in the practice book, I’ll pay for you and a friend to go to the movies. I only had to do that a couple of times, because once he saw his score rise, he became motivated himself. So, it probably cost me about $50 total, but the scholarships he got more than paid for that.</p>
<p>So…what’s your D’s currency?</p>
<p>
Especially when you say “I told you so.” ;)</p>
<p>I am learning that I can’t want it more than my D. It is hard to sit by and watch her not work up to what clearly is her potential (in my mind). However, when I talk to her about it, she is very clear that those are my dreams, not hers. She is happy and content with her own dreams. It is hard to let go sometimes. Good luck OP. I feel your pain!</p>