Unmotivated Junior- What do you do?

Parents Forum
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<p>There is s certain amount of “You can lead a horse to water…” in operation here. Both our daughters had great grades, and D1 dutifully prepared for her SATs, did very well on them, and ultimately got into a top school. D2 was a different story. She went in with no prep to speak of and got only okay scores. Not terrible but not Ivy caliber. I didn’t get mad or nag or even get very disappointed. I just started talking to her about schools that were a couple of notches down from those she had been considering - good state schools instead of great private schools.</p>

<p>The key was she got disappointed in herself. Her scores were not in line with her grades and she knew it. She studied a lot harder for the retake using the Xiggi method. Still not as hard as I would have liked, but I was not going to nag. In the end she delivered the goods. She raised her score 270 points, and we went back to talking about high-end schools. She got into several and loves the one she chose where she is now a freshman.</p>

<p>But the point is, SHE had to want it for herself. I don’t see any way I could have forced her to do better against her will.</p>

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<p>Many 16 or 17 year olds just don’t have the maturity to work hard for something as abstract as college can be, which it still is for many (not counting the typical college obsessed CC kid). My S definitely didn’t get it where it counts (in his motivation center). Sure he understood that studying for the SATs improved your scores which improve your chances at certain colleges, but he just didn’t care enough. Only when it was looming, in the fall of senior year, did he start to take it seriously.</p>

<p>All you can really do is just keep encouraging her and be very clear about what you would like for her future (college, happiness, security). She will get up off the couch eventually. Don’t blame yourself too much for her behavior right now. She is not you, doesn’t have the same goals as you, at least not now. To a certain extent, she is probably defining herself in opposition to you – a typical teen-ager! She’ll be all right.</p>

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<p>"I feel like this is something she will look back at and say “Why didn’t you make me…Why did you let me quit piano (ish)? " How do I get over this or make her do something for her own good?”</p>

<p>Just because she may blame you doesn’t mean you’ll have to accept the blame. Part of helping our kids become mature adults is allowing them to take responsibility for their actions.</p>

<p>You are doing your part by taking her around to see colleges, and letting her know about what she’ll need to do to gain acceptance.</p>

<p>It’s up to her, though, about whether she chooses to get the necessary grades or test scores. </p>

<p>The fact that she’s in love with Cornell right now doesn’t mean that she’s willing to do the work to get there. If she’s not willing, she may be happy at less competitive school.</p>

<p>I’ve heard that unlike Ivies like Harvard, where it’s easy to get good grades, Cornell has grade deflation. Consequently, it doesn’t sound like a good school for someone who may be smart, but doesn’t want to work hard.</p>

<p>Just because she fell in love with Cornell doesn’t mean she’d really like to go there. She may like the beauty and prestige now, but that doesn’t mean she’d enjoy the work ethic or that she would want to do what it takes to have a decent chance of admission.</p>

<p>She may be perfectly happy going to a second tier school. Her goals may not be your goals. For all you know, she also may rise to her potential at a second tier school.</p>

<p>Younger S, who despite having sky high scores, had a sub 3.0 unweighted gpa in h.s. He claimed he wanted to go to a top college, but his grades took him out of contention for one. He did, however, catch fire at his second tier LAC. Due to his course selection and taking full advantage of professors, etc., he’s obtaining a better academic experience in college than I did at Harvard. I also know that when it comes to grad school and professional schools, high grade, high score (which depends on the work they learn in college) students can get into top programs. It’s not as if one has to go to a top undergraduate program to go to a top graduate program.</p>

<p>And, even if one doesn’t go to a top graduate program, one can still do very well in one’s field.</p>

<p>" Plus I don’t really want to spend 1100 on sport camp for the summer at IVY league schools she can’t get into academically."</p>

<p>Tell her that you won’t spend that money and send her to camp unless she studies and gets XXX scores spring semester on the SAT or ACT. No reason for you to bother wasting your money sending her to a sports camp when she won’t have the grades to be admitted to the college. You can tell her this as a fact, not a threat, then let go, and let her by her actions make the decision. If she doesn’t get the scores, then stand by your decision.</p>

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<p>We parents are so good at finding ourselves responsible, aren’t we? I don’t think its because she’s had it easy/you’ve been generous to her. The reason I say that is I see very very priviledged kids who work very hard, and ones that do not; I’ve seen kids from impoverished backgrounds who work very hard, and ones that do not. I see lots of kids in the same family where some are so diligent about school and others that are not. </p>

<p>I know its frustrating but try not to beat yourself up or look for a reason. She sounds to me like a person who is happy, relaxed, confident, and pretty smart too! And as a recruited athlete, she must have self-discipline in that domain. </p>

<p>She will probably continue to live a happy life and if she hits bumps in the road for being too laid back, she’ll learn to work with it or change. But she’s young yet and has tons of great college options even with what she’s done so far. Not everyone is cut out to be fueled by anxiety and the need to be the best on paper.</p>

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<p>Yes. That is the point. But OP says that her daughter does aspire to some reachy colleges, does have it in her to get to that level, but simply doesn’t have the motivation to work. </p>

<p>I think some very careful, sensitive, loving, parentally supplied motivation (a.k.a pep-talk, and/or nagging) may be exactly what the girl wants. I know my daughter resisted but also appreciated when I supplied that kind of motivation. Just be very careful not to overdo it, and always make sure you are only doing it to help your child achieve what SHE wants.</p>

<p>Edit: I just re-read your OP. Some of the signs (eg not even looking at the ACT exam format) suggest your daughter may be trapped in a “fixed mindset”. I recommend looking up the ‘growth’ and ‘fixed’ mindset research popularized by Carol Dweck- a well-regareded psychologist at Stanford.</p>

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<p>Lol…years ago I ran into another Mom. We were kvetching about our kids not studying for the SATS. I told her “my kid wants to run the NYC marathon but he isn’t training for it.” She countered “mine wants to play the flute but he isn’t taking lessons and doesn’t own a flute.”<br>
Typical for this age. All you can do, in my opinion, is sit her down and explain the connection between the opportunities/choices created by the best score possible and the limitations created by not studying or making preparations. The rest is up to her.</p>

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<p>Studying for SAT is no fun and it can be very tedious but practice makes perfect. You can pick a set time once a week like during Saturday afternoon and make her do one 25 minutes timed section. You can sit down with her, I sometimes do the same section of test along with my kid, and go over the answers with him afterwards. I know that it is suggested that the whole long test should be practiced but the 3 hours format is just too daunting to work into our schedule. This method needs a long lead time so you can’t do this with just a few weeks. After awhile, he gets very good and we only concentrate on the type of section that gives him trouble which was CR. I know this sounds like another helicopter parents but looking back, it was like a family time for us and he realizes now that he would not have done all that practice without the routine. His score went from 180+ PSAT, to high 2200 in the fall of senior year.</p>

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<p>Exactly the conclusion I have come to over the last year. If they’re not willing to do the work to get in, if by the grace of God they do get in, would they even be able to work hard enough to do well in a highly competitive environment? Sometimes I’m surprised by the comments on CC that seem to suggest getting in is the hard part, once you’re in it’s no problem doing well. When I’ve talked to people who have gone to places like MIT, Harvard, Duke, Darmouth, etc. they almost always say that it was a lot of work. The bar is set very high just by virtue of the type of student they admit. The kids that get into these schools tend to self-motivated, hard workers. A kid that gets in and isn’t use to working hard is probably going to struggle, at least at first.</p>

<p>My son wants to go to Chicago. He got deferred. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. If he does manage to get in during RD, I have doubts that he has the self-discipline to do the amount of work needed at a school like that to stay afloat. I have no doubt, at all, he has the smarts to do the work. His teachers routinely comment that he is one of the brightest kids they have ever taught. But at some of these schools, there is a a high level of expectation from the professors. They have no problem piling on the work and expecting the kids to do it. If a kid can’t even be bothered to study for the SAT, why would he suddenly get motivated to spend hours on end studying for his college classes? </p>

<p>Some schools require a lot more work to get in and some majors require a lot more work of the students. Those are generally the schools that are more competitive and selective and generally the careers that pay more. A lot of kids think they want to be an engineer,or a doctor or a lawyer…until they realize the sacrifices they must make to get there. My own son wants the ‘prestige’ that goes along with certain things but doesn’t want to make the sacrifices to achieve it. We’ve talked to him about this, endlessly. At some point, a light bulb might go off and he will finally get it. Unfortunately, for a lot of kids it’s not until their early twenties.</p>

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<p>I’d like to focus on the OPs point that D is already higher achieving than her friends. At this age, friends talk about everything and particularly with girls, there can be much mutual support and affirmation. My guess is that her friends are telling her that she’ll have no problem getting into Cornell because of her top grades and sports status. Many kids this age pay no mind to details such as specific SATs, actual athletic recruitment statistics, etc., and they give each other terrible and misleading advice. </p>

<p>My D tells me stories all the time about classmates who are certain that they will get into colleges where it is obvious they have little chance. One of her friends was convinced that she was a shoo-in at a competitive school during this year’s EA and everyone in the group told the girl that it was a done deal - she was “in.” She was rejected outright. My daughter said that it was clear this girl didn’t have any chance - too low SATs, not enough rigorous classes, etc., but she felt uncomfortable saying anything about looking at other schools because it would be perceived as negative or unsupportive.</p>

<p>The OP’s D may be hearing unrealistic advice daily from friends, so it is important to counter this with pragmatism and the cold hard facts about college admissions. If this girl has the talents as described, she’ll figure it out and do the work necessary to achieve her goals. Why assume that she’ll be happy at a lesser college, especially in light of her current high school situation which is described as not particularly competitive? I’d push her a bit more knowing that at least she’ll have the opportunity to achieve her goal of attending Cornell.</p>

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<p>It sounds like your desire for her to go to Cornell is stronger than her desire to go to Cornell. </p>

<p>Having twins who are as different in their personalities as night and day (one is embracing the whole process, really researching and thinking through – and one is at the “huh? ACT’s are TODAY? hey, anyone have a pencil?” – and naturally that one is the one who got the 33!) – I agree, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I suggest you stop thinking of Cornell as the desired end goal. Believe me, BTDT; I did that with my own alma mater (also a t20), thinking of it as the desired end goal.</p>

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<p>She’s still got time to get motivated, and many chances to take the SAT again. Perhaps a bad score will be what it takes to get her in gear. Alternatively, if she got a 202 on the PSAT, she might do fine without any practicing.</p>

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<p>a couple of thoughts–</p>

<p>No, you haven’t taken her motivation away by giving her too much. I’ve never seen it work that way-- sometimes kids get ‘things’ instead of ‘relationship’ and that can destroy motivation-- but it doesn’t sound like that’s true for you and your D. </p>

<p>If her friends are not shooting as high as she is, and since you have been supportive of her, she may be feeling out of sync for really trying-- as if it means she thinks she’s better than they are. This has been a real problem for my D, and I think it happens to so many-- if the friends are heading for State U, who does she think she is to aim higher?</p>

<p>And-- maybe she’s frightened. Loves Cornell, fears the challenge, the distance from friends who will be partying at ___ State while she makes her way alone at Big Ivy. It’s a huge, huge change, and for a kid who’s happy at home with her family, maybe not even imaginable right now. (Are there older siblings, so she has seen how it works?) </p>

<p>These are things that come to my mind-- if you talk it through with her and listen carefully you might find other things that stand in the way and make her feel unmotivated. And, is there a trusted teacher or guidance counselor you can talk to, who might sit down with her? That has worked well around here at times. </p>

<p>Good luck-- clearly she’s done well with the first part of her life, I bet that will continue!!!</p>

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<p>I just wanted to add in case someone else hasn’t already, that taking the SAT and the ACT more than once each is a form of test prep in itself, and her scores will most likely improve when she tests again.</p>

<p>Also wanted to add that my son was the subject of a marathon thread here when he did nothing but play video games the entire summer between his junior and senior year, when mom wanted him to study for the SAT and start his college apps. The outcome… He did nothing all summer and was still accepted ED to his first choice school with a nice academic scholarship and possible nat’l scholarship still to come. Check out my Student Doing Nothing thread for a lot of great CC wisdom. It got me through a frustrating time!</p>

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<p>“And-- maybe she’s frightened. Loves Cornell, fears the challenge, the distance from friends who will be partying at ___ State while she makes her way alone at Big Ivy. It’s a huge, huge change…”</p>

<p>And maybe she just loves Cornell because it has a gorgeous campus and a well respected name. It’s very normal for students to fall in love with colleges for such superficial reasons. It’s also normal for them to lose their crushes easily and to move on to whatever college grabs their attention for similar superficial reasons. </p>

<p>The OP hasn’t indicated anything that reflects her D’s being seriously interested in Cornell or being the type of student who’d thrive there. If the D were seriously interested in Cornell, she’d be working hard to get the scores to be accepted.</p>

<p>Having a dream is not a plan. There are plenty of colleges in this country, and the mom should continue exposing the D to a variety of colleges to see what interests the D. It’s usually best to start with finding a safety for the student to love. It’s not best to start with a reach school.</p>

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<p>Teenage kids are experts at “magical thinking.” They want to go to a certain selective school, haven’t put in the work to get a good GPA and stellar test scores and then figure that they have a good chance of being admitted to their target college.</p>

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<p>Many kids mistake loving a school as a qualification for going there. Your D needs to understand that wanting to go to Cornell does not in itself qualify her for admission</p>

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<p>Being a student-athlete in a competitive program is a major commitment. If the student would struggle without the sports commitment, how do you think she’ll do after putting 20 hours a week into practices and games, and then needing to buckle down and study when she’s tired? I wouldn’t wish that situation on anyone, much less my child.</p>

<p>I recently talked to my nephew, who played D1 hockey for four years, and has been out working for three years. His said his most enjoyable years are now, post-hockey - not that he didn’t love the game, but that it dominated his college life, and pushed his academics aside too many times.</p>

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<p>I don’t think she is unmotivated because you gave her too much. Kids who got a lot can still be very strongly motivated… Age and maturity play a role. motivation comes at different age for different people. For most girls, it seems to be around 15 - 18, if you’re lucky. otherwise - I hate to say this - she may have to fall REALLY bad before she wakes up and give all of these a serious thought. But if it happens, the bad fall is so worthwhile.</p>

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So are moms.</p>

<p>dazd, from what you’ve said here, I infer that Cornell is your ambition for your daughter, and that she is probably telling you what she thinks you want to hear in order to appease you.</p>

<p>In your words, your daughter is making “great grades” while competing at a “recruitable” level in her sport. It sounds like she has a positive attitude and a well-adjusted social life, and through the natural course of her schoolwork she’s raised her testing profile by the equivalent of about 200 points (202 PSAT is comparable to 2000 SAT). So she likes to spend a little downtime watching TV, and she might think that raising children in a nice house and keeping in touch with her friends might be a fulfilling life. Does that merit your “STUPID 16 YEAR OLDS!” label, or your desire to repossess her Christmas presents?</p>

<p>IMHO, a young lady who has so much right with her deserves your support, not your disdain. Especially in a public forum, in her school, and in your conversations with people around her.</p>

<p>If her test scores make Cornell and Tufts an unreachable reach for her, why not help her find colleges that appeal to her and are more likely to admit a student with her academic profile? … and stop sending the message that only Cornell will do. If she decides that none of the “likely” colleges appeal to her as much as Cornell and Tufts, then perhaps she’ll pick up that motivation you’re hoping for when she sees that her scores don’t pass muster. As you said, she’s smart.</p>

<p>Aside, I disagree with others who’ve said not to send her to the Ivy sports camp. If she’s a big fish in a small pond at home, she probably doesn’t realize how big the talent pool is “out there.” Exposure to other players from across the country might help her understand the level of competition she’ll face if she decides that her dream aligns with yours.</p>

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<p>geek_mom, I think that is a little harsh. I can’t even imagine to understand or know exactly what is going on from a few posts by dazd. I know one thing, I see a parent who cares for her daughter. Maybe she is overbearing like you said but maybe her daughter is really letting the opportunity passing her by and a little prodding and pushing would do a lot of good. I don’t know. There is nothing wrong with aiming low and be content with what you think is feasible but OTH, there is nothing wrong to try to aim high also. To each its own.</p>