That’s the whole point of negotiation.
This isn’t a nonprofit or government agency with clear standards. This is a small, for-profit startup that probably is in violation of labor laws by offering an “internship” when they probably really want an administrative assistant of some sort… but the startup may be cash-poor and potentially it could represent an opportunity.
Re: #60
What would the opportunity be if the intern were not paid (in either cash or founder’s stock) at such a small for-profit startup?
I have to ask…how many grown ups here would work for NO pay? And if you did…would you call it an “internship”?
I guess the word “volunteer” is out of style. Internship is “in”. I’ve heard of kids who have gotten jobs as camp counselors, and they are calling them “internships”.
A duck is a duck is a duck.
If you are working for no pay, you are volunteering your time to gain some experience.
It’s a quid pro quo only affluent families can afford.
I don’t agree with unpaid work, no matter what it is called. The first tier of Asst. US attorneys is full of ‘interns’ who are licensed attorneys, who work 50+ hours a week, who do it for 1-2 years without pay. Only wealthy people can do this.
@thumper1 – Medical students spend two years in clinical rotations, working up to 80 hours a week, without compensation; in fact they are charged tuition during that time. That’s more of a pre-internship or a sub-internship (the medical term “intern” applies to someone who has already completed their rotations) – but the point is that if entry into a profession is demanding enough, adults are sometimes willing to work very hard and long without compensation to get there.
I think the key is whether the internship truly represents a learning experience for the person – the ability to observe and learn, and to participate in doing something they are otherwise clearly unqualified to do. That is: it puts the intern in a position to do something, with appropriate supervision, that they never would be hired to do for pay.
Any internship is also going to involve a reasonable amount of support/grunt work – but that shouldn’t be the primary part of the internship.
My hesitation with the OP daughter’s “internship” is that it’s hard to see how she is being mentored in such a small working environment. She can only be an “Operations intern” (the title given) if there is an “Operations Director/Manager” that she is working with. So pointed questioning in the beginning about what her duties would be, who would be supervising her work, and how closely she would be working with that person might be appropriate. It might also be worthwhile to find out whether the startup does have a paid employee on staf to handle administrative tasks – if not, that could be a red flag that the OP will find herself at a desk answering phones, handling email and database entry, etc.
The problem is that such a small group probably is very much in need of a low-level administrative assistant and may be choosing to save money by calling the position an “internship.”
When my DD was interning with the UN agency… it was a very different situation. (Technically she wasn’t even qualified for the unpaid internship she had).
If the OP was asking whether she, as a parent, should pay for her daughter’s living expenses over the summer with this internship, I would have told her - no way. It just doesn’t have “opportunity” written in bright lights in a way to justify parental underwriting. But she says that her daughter has earnings saved up so that she can pay her own costs… and I think that’s the point where we parents have to butt out.
Sorry…clinical rotations are part of SCHOOL. Once a med student starts “internship” they are actually paid…not a lot…but they are paid.
You wouldn’t say that a student in a theater production is paying tuition and not getting paid to act was doing an internship, even though the theater department was making money off the production. Sometimes there is just a course that requires hands on participation - acting, dance, labs, clinicals, student teaching. These are taught by professors and assessed by professionals.
D2 did internships at legal aid and district attorney’s office for few summers and she was paid above minimum wage. She will be working at US attorney’s office for 2 years and she will be paid with full benefit and over time.
I am also a believer of if you couldn’t get paid internship in your field of interest then it is not likely you’ll get a permanent job with sustainable income.
You can go to USAJobs and there are many Asst US attorney ‘jobs’ listed with $0 pay. Qualifications include having passed the bar.
Just because it is listed doesn’t mean one should take it. I would think someone with a law degree would be smart enough not to take it.
As a hiring manager, I will ask an applicant if jobs they listed on their resume were paid positions.
My daughter volunteered one summer (after freshman year of college) at a non-profit - she listed it on her resume as volunteer (as a non-profit it was legal and was a good introduction for her to an office environment)
Several years after my son did an unpaid internship for a large corporation he was subject to a outsourced background check by a company that wanted to hire him. In the meantime, all the people he had worked for at internship company had moved on, he’d never been on the payroll so HR had no records, and the background check group threw up a big red flag about falsification of experience. I think he was able to clear that red flag – but it’s something to be aware of. Get and keep documentation of all experience and be aware that the background checkers may go back 5-7 years verifying everything.
^^^That’s a very good point. When they do background check, they just call up companies you have listed on your application, and those companies can only say how long you have worked there.
…or poor kids who attend elite schools which offer funding for unpaid summer internships, or kids who work enough during the year to self-fund their expenses. Multiple examples of both in this thread.
I’m surprised so many people have negative feelings about an unpaid internship. Ds2 used them as resume builders and as a supplement to a not-FT paying gig. He made connections at these unpaid internships that are still paying dividends today.
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200% agree. For me, volunteering / unpaid internships worked great! I am from low income, low connections family. Unpaid volunteering gave me an opportunity to work for offices that would never open a door for me, through the conventional job applications.
BTW, I still volunteer (work pro bono) for start up company, as I am always open to the opportunities. You don’t want to miss the next Google 
Each time I planned a carrier shift, I volunteered, first. To learn the trade, go get the feeling, to know people. Volunteering is great, because 1)employee is grateful 2) you are free to choose the projects (to some extend), and 3) you are free to leave at any moment if you don’t like the environment. Paid internships are inflexible. You are getting little money, yet all constrains of the “real work”.
I mean … OP, it is your choice. If you don’t want your D to volunteer - fine.
<what would="" the="" opportunity="" be="" if="" intern="" were="" not="" paid="" (in="" either="" cash="" or="" founder’s="" stock)="" at="" such="" a="" small="" for-profit="" startup?="">
Great opportunity To learn swimming to need to be in the water. Startup will teach you, how to build a company, to fail, to collaborate, to look for the right people, to write a business plan, to apply for funding, to fail, and fail again, and keep going All MBA education, in the real world environment, in real time For free. Startups rarely pay money, they don’t have money. However, they will hire you if you help them in the beginning.
Founder’s stock to unproven intern? Never heard of it.
Exactly. Volunteering (typically) is not a 40/week job.