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Again, I don’t understand the hard feelings against volunteers.
It is not hard feelings against the volunteers, but against the employers who are using interns as free labor. Volunteering is great but should not be a replacement for the employer having to pay minumum wage for work performed. There are definitions of what can be an unpaid internship and what cant.
I don’t think public officials should be able to work for free either. Set the salary for the mayor or senator or governor and pay that amount. If the official wants to donate the money, great, but I think it makes an unfair playing field to the voters who might think ‘If we elect, the state will have to pay $200k, but if we elect Z, he’ll work for free’.
Volunteering is informal. Less paperwork. Higher probability of getting in. For example, it is really difficult for a HS student to get an internship - too much liability and paperwork. Also, internships are often full time. Volunteering is part time and flexible hours.
Last year I volunteered part time, (two months) to learn a new skill. I really don’t need a minimal wage, as I have a full-time employment. Luckily, I was able to join as a volunteer, for free. It helped me tremendously, as I avoided lots of conflict-of-interest, conflict-of-commitment issues.
Ten years ago I changed my career path in the same manner. I joined as a volunteer (keeping my full time employment status intact). Once I learned transferable skills, I was able to get a new career.
Twenty years ago, I started working in the lab as a volunteer, while still getting an undergrad degree. I didn’t get any credit for that work. None. I was not paid. I was doing mundane work in the lab, cleaning, coffee-making, making the most simple experiments. In the end, I knew more experimental techniques than my friends, who were attending lectures and doing labs. Also, I was listed as a co-author of a publication. When I was applying to graduate schools, I got stellar recommendation letters from my informal supervisor. I think, if you are doing good things to good people, they will find ways to thank you. In the end, I got into the Stanford graduate program; out of nowhere.
Volunteering helped me a lot. I feel sad that my D doesn’t have the same opportunities that I did, because 1) my University doesn’t accept HS kids as interns without tons of legal paperwork, and 2) volunteers are discouraged due to the recent legal rulings.
If your work is worth something then someone should be willing to pay for it.
There are laws to prevent employers from making you the ‘volunteer’ coffee maker in the lab. You can argue all you want that internships are valuable to teach you to make coffee, but there are laws that control the work descriptions, duties, hours, control over work.
There are lots of people who don’t need the money, but they still have to be paid at least minimum wage. There are lots of people who would work for less than minimum wage just to have a job a Google, or at restaurants, or at Disneyland. That’s not allowed either.
69: Just searched USA Jobs and not one unpaid attorney or assistant attorney position came up. Even the student trainees were paid. I believe the US only offers unpaid internships to students that are in school and are getting credit. Perhaps this changes recently?
<there are="" laws="" to="" prevent="" employers="" from="" making="" you="" the="" ‘volunteer’="" coffee="" maker="" in="" lab="">
Unfortunately, you are right. Unfortunately. I from the times, when volunteering in the lab was allowed. It helped me, tremendously.
This year we hired 10 interns. I don’t know their names. I am sending them projects by email, they send me work product. Automated service. 5 years ago we had volunteers. They had flexible schedules, they were members of the team, they were invited to all events, they were valued, they were getting recommendation letters.
<there are="" lots="" of="" people="" who="" would="" work="" for="" less="" than="" minimum="" wage="" just="" to="" have="" a="" job="" google,="" or="" at="" restaurants,="" disneyland.="" that’s="" not="" allowed="" either.="">
These laws protect minimal wage workers and reinforce social stratification. Unfortunately.
Nobody pays me for taking care of my children. This work is priceless 
Californiaa- you are welcome to move to Dubai or Malaysia and pay your foreign household “volunteers” nothing but food and lodging in exchange for them taking care of your children and cleaning your house- while you confiscate their passports so they have no recourse. And then you can come back here and tell us all about social stratification.
You cannot possibly equate the experience of an upper middle class professional who decides to “volunteer” to expand his/her professional skillset, to the experiences of people who are vulnerable to being exploited by their employer. The labor laws we have are designed to protect the vulnerable, not to prevent you from volunteering at the Red Cross to learn Drupal or how to create an annual report using photoshop.
I met many consultants / lawyers / etc., who charge $200+ / hours for their work, and would volunteer (work pro Bono) for a potentially interesting company/project. I don’t think there is anything wrong in working for free, for future opportunity. IMHO, it demonstrates that the applicant in enthusiastic, open to new ideas, and not desperate.
Pro bono work is generally done in charitable or non-profit organization contexts, not when the beneficiary is a for-profit company.
Do pro bono work for anyone you wish.
You would not have “standing” to sue a non-profit which allowed you to volunteer or provide professional services pro bono. You would likely have standing to sue Walmart for allowing you to restock shelves and sweep the parking lot without pay.
Surely you can see the difference in these two situations.
For-profit young start up companies are often beneficiaries of pro bono work. Lawyers, executives, scientists, engineers would often volunteer for promising companies. Later, if the company got funding, they hope to be hired for real projects. Very common business development model.
And Facebook faced a rash of lawsuits once it went public from people who had “volunteered” their time in the early days and were now claiming a share of the company. Medical device manufacturers have constant issues from physicians and scientists who contribute in the early stages based on their desire to do good in the world… and then realize they could monetize their good intentions once the device or invention goes to market.
But my point is that the labor laws don’t exist to protect a PhD from 'volunteering" to help a Life Sciences start up. And he or she should do it or not do it. The topic under discussion is a 20 year old kid.
Californiaa- you seem unwilling to recognize that the emeritus professor from Cal Tech who is helping out a start up is in a different place economically from a student.
< You would likely have standing to sue Walmart for allowing you to restock shelves and sweep the parking lot without pay.>
Volunteer work is … volunteered. If I don’t like restocking shelf, I (as a volunteer) may quit at any moment. If I want to continue … if means that I am getting some value out of the process.
Anyway, my point is: unpaid internship (volunteering) is a common and practical way of gaining new skills and networking.
Walmart got hit with a massive lawsuit for allowing (compelling? the testimony wasn’t clear) employees to do work prior to or after clocking in or out.
You would NOT be allowed to sweep the parking lot at Walmrt without getting paid for it. If you don’t like the law, lobby to get it changed or move to a country that doesn’t protect its hourly workers. Or sweep the parking lot at the local animal shelter or food bank, call it an internship, and be a happy camper.
Namaste.
Easy to quit if you are a 40 year old volunteering. Not quite so good an option if you are a college student who wanted to do an internship for 8-10 weeks in the summer, want the experience, and find yourself making coffee and running errands for ABC start up. Are you going to quit on July 1 and have nothing to show for it except a bill for the plane ticket and sublet? It would be a lot less to suck up I you were at least being paid for the internship.
I admit, I always volunteered on top on a full-time job or a full-time education. Also, I always volunteered within a close driving distance from home. Thus - no additional expenses. I volunteered my time (when it was convenient for me), as long as it was a satisfying experience.
Interesting topic! I think while in college my daughter did some local short term unpaid internships that later looked good on her resume and ultimately helped her land a better job. I don’t think it is a great idea to relocate …or devote yourself full-time … to an unpaid internship.
I work for a non-profit law firm providing legal services to (mostly) low income clients, and the life-blood of our organization consists of volunteer law students and unemployed (or retired) lawyers- who are all unpaid. There is currently one paid intern, but his pay comes from his law school (which he is in turn paying).
What do the law students or unemployed lawyers “get” out of this? A professional recommendation (which is HUGE when they later apply for jobs), work experience, and a position that looks good on their resume- along with the less tangible satisfaction of helping others. Most donate one day per week to this work, so it does not amount to a huge amount of time. They all live locally.
I would look very hard at relocating (even just for a summer) for a volunteer position.
Update. I said earlier it really depends on the situation. Every internship is different. My son is at an unpaid internship in Chicago. He just met with the staff yesterday and have mapped out his training and activities, to include a weekly meeting with sites around the country and other interns. It’s a very structured, new program in a government agency and is seen as training. He’s had more relevant meetings and experiences in his first three days than he would have had at a paid internship all last summer. Very interesting and engaging work. He gets the experience and training, as well as experiencing a new city and meeting new people.
I guess we could have sent him to Europe for a party tour, er, study abroad trip that would have cost double what this does.
I’m not a fan of colleges mandating that students seek unpaid internships. Some families just can’t afford that option. But whether the internship is for pay or for credit, the student needs to look hard and fast as to what he/she will be doing through the internship, what skills will be gained, exactly how those skills will benefit the student, and how an internship at that company will be viewed by future employers. Even a small startup company should be able to provide some type of job description for her.