UNT and other colleges drug/alcohol policy

Parents Forum
1

<p>2 questions:</p>

<li><p>Can anyone tell me anything about academics and the social and political climate of University of North Texas? (UNT) My son just got a brochure in the mail which we almost tossed but there were some things that made us take a second look. </p></li>
<li><p>I just looked at their website and they seemed to have a LOT more detailed info than I’ve found on other college websites. For example, they seem to be VERY strict on drugs/alcohol:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>(from their website)</p>

<p>"…UNT is very strict about these two things. Students are removed from the halls on their second alcohol violation and their first drug violation; in addition to further serious sanctions from the university. Suspension from the university occurs if there is a significant amount of drugs involved. Although we make this information known widely and talk it up constantly, many students knowingly violate the policy and are sent packing. We hate to do this. You hate for it to happen. The student is often “surprised” and devastated. This doesn’t need to happen. Students simply need to honor our commitment to a drug and alcohol free environment and upholding state and federal law…"</p>

<p>Is this normal for all colleges, or is it stricter than most? I find it refreshing and am wondering whether it might be a cleaner environment. But maybe I am just being quick to believe their sales pitch!</p>

<p>Anything anyone can tell me about UNT would be appreciated!</p>

2

<p>leal, my D has several friends who attend UNT. All of them report that there is some serious alchohol around. I don't want to overstate my "knowledge" as I have no idea about academic "quality". I just know that the students from D's school who attend are all interested in music, dance, or similar but were not the most acdemically driven kids in high school. </p>

<p>Like most schools that size I am positive that there are a great number of academically inclined students to balance with D's friends.;) Have you looked at UT-D ? They really seem to court good students.</p>

3

<p>I would not want to go to college in Denton, Texas. Cur is right- the music school is extremely strong. There are a lot of commuters. Denton is a dump.
UT-D also seems to have low quality of campus life. It is courting top students and is trying to really beef up the science and math areas. It offers some good academics, but I suspect a visit would be in order to see the environment for yourself.</p>

4

<p>"Denton is a dump."</p>

<p>Ugh. 'Nuff said. Moving on...</p>

<p>We had not looked at it seriously, as UT Austin is still his top choice, and he is already enrolled at UTSA for the spring (part-time, he already has credits from dual-credit), so that is always his backup, and there are some oos schools he's interested in, but I thought it would be good to have another Texas school in case he decides he doesn't want to move far away. (Shipping his computer and x-shaped electric guitar will be a major hassle!) We only started looking at UNT because their brochure caught our attention.</p>

<p>"not the most acdemically driven kids in high school..."</p>

<p>"low quality of campus life. "</p>

<p>Bleh, those don't sound too good either...I think this one will get scratched off the list.</p>

<p>dumb question: Is UT-D the same as UNT?</p>

5

<p>UT-Dallas, I think</p>

<p>I really have no first or even second hand experience, but I'd imagine that policy has a lot of bark and very little bite. Outside of places like the service academies or very self-selecting universities like that, the colleges say X and actually practice Y. For instance, the RA's would probably only formally report a "violation" if it was pretty extreme.</p>

6

<p>No- UT-D is University of Texas at Dallas. It is in north Dallas- really Richardson. It has gotten a lot of grant money from some of the Texas Instrument founders' trusts. TI really wants to beef up the local science/math educational programs. The school is really trying to develop, and as UT-Austin gets harder and harder to get into, UTD will attract a stronger student body. I think Cur knows more about it. There is some merit money to be had there, too. I still don't consider the quality of campus life that great. I've gone to some sporting events there, and it is OK. Just OK.</p>

7

<p>OK, we'll check out UT-Dallas. I liked the idea of Denton because it's a small town, compared to the big city Dallas. This is really a long shot but I want to look at other Texas schools. Since he will be applying as a transfer, he has a bit of time, since UT won't notify transfer admission til April or May. (Ugh, the wait!)</p>

<p>He has ruled out A&M and Lubbuck is just too isolated for his taste, and Houston is out.</p>

8

<p>UNT has a renowned music and music education program. It is the place to go if you want to be a jazz musician or band director in Texas or the surrounding states. Otherwise, meh. One step above community college. No reason (except music) to go there from anywhere beyond a two hours' drive away.</p>

<p>UTD is completely different. Small. Hardest of all the UT campuses to be accepted into, even more selective than that diploma mill down in Austin. Very strong electrical engineering and computer depts. Strong other academic depts. to match the strength of the student body. Kind of a hidden treasure of the TX state school system. Many international students. Many high-achieving children of local technical professionals working in the high-tech north Texas corridor, who can send their live-at-home kids to one of the best engineering schools in the state for next to nothing. Chess team is always in the national finals. Go Comets.</p>

<p>UTD's rather large drawback however is that the campus is ugly as sin. Drab, no frill, modern buildings that look like they were built last week, in the middle of a suburban pasture. Huge parking lots for the majority of students who live at home and commute. The only on-campus living quarters is an apartment complex that was the subject of a scandal last year for its appalling lack of maintenance and safety due to some sweetheart deal between the management company and the school administration. Incredibly, this was reported by journalism students from SMU, based on UTD whistleblowers. After months of investigation, UTD admitted wrongdoing, issued a 20-point program to right things, and heads rolled. Still, even if they were the Ritz the apartments would be a sucky way to experience college.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Denton is a dump.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a rather harsh characterization. </p>

<p>I don't know anything about Denton from firsthand experience, but I would imagine that there are people living there who might be offended by this description, especially since there are no details provided as to why "Denton is a dump."</p>

<p>According to </p>

<p><a href="http://www.cityofdenton.com/pages/qualityoflifeeco.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cityofdenton.com/pages/qualityoflifeeco.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Many performing groups provide Denton with an endless supply of cultural and entertainment opportunities. The Greater Denton Arts Council, Denton Community Theater, Denton Civic Ballet, Denton Light Opera Company, Bach Society, UNT College of Music, UNT Dance and Drama Department, and TWU Dance and Theater Arts Department top the list. In addition, year-round festivals and events draw thousands of visitors from outside the Denton area.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The above site also says that the city has 28 parks and has won the National Gold Medal for its parks & recreation department for three years running.</p>

<p>Money Magazine includes Denton as #58 on its "100 Best Places to Live in the US" list--the crime rate is lower than the national average, cardiac and cancer mortality rates (age-adjusted) are lower than the national average, air quality is better than the national average, traffic congestion & and divorce rates are lower than the national average. There are two universities, 15 libraries within 15 miles, and a nearby accredited museum in a city with a population of 100,000. Employment grew over 20% between 2000 and 2005 and the cost of living is lower than the national average. The ratio of bars (13) to restaurants (670) is much lower than the overall ratio among the top 100 places to live.</p>

<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL4819972.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL4819972.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This doesn't exactly sound like a dump to me. Maybe there's some important specific aspects missing from the above websites, but it seems to me that Denton deserves more than a dismissive offhand characterization as a "dump" without some specific supporting details.</p>

10

<p>If I want to state my opinion that Denton is a dump, I will. If you have been there are can do something more than cite propaganda, then I welcome your opinion.
Perhaps it isn't quite a dump. It is not a thrilling place and it is not particularly convenient to Dallas or the airport. Except for performing arts, UNT doesn't have much going for it. TWU, the other university, has less.
I lived in Dallas for 28 years. I've spent a fair amount of time in Denton.<br>
To each his own.</p>

11

<p>OK, both of them are off the table. MOWC, I trust you experience since you lived there! Thanks to everyone for your info!</p>

<p>He doesn't really NEED to find another school as a backup, but I just thought I'd be open minded and consider other Texas schools. Neither of those sound very appealing.</p>

12

<p>I have friends with kids at UT-San Antonio. THey are doing well and like it. No personal experience wit the uni, though I love San Antonio to visit. Not a dump, in other words.</p>

<p>As to alcohol policies, you need to talk to the kids in the dorms if you want the real story. My son's school has pretty tough talk about consequences if caught and written up. The thing is that they just don't look to catch and they tend not to write up those caught. They being the Resident advisors who are responsible for the kids in the dorms. If they are caught by some university official in a fluke situation or are in a very grave situation, it does go to the disciplinary committee,and the consequences can be dire. But the real proof of how serious a school is about these infractions is how much they truly look for the problems. I find it hard to believe that state schools with a student RA system, and so many kids are going to be looking real hard. In my experience, the schools that really mean it are those with religious affiliations. Even then you have to talk to the kids. Also, those substance free dorms, are only as substance free as the kids in them and their RA make them. The day to day enforcement is what counts, not the finally penalty to those who the system chooses to punish. The penalties are there so that they can be used if the college chooses to do so, but how often they are used, is a whole different story.</p>

13

<p>Just my opinion, if the school is a good match for the kid, it does not necessarly matter that it is in a "dump". New Haven and Poughkepsie in this area are often characterised as dumps.</p>

14

<p>Very true. But these don't seem like particularly good matches, in this case.</p>

15

<p>Interesting that dt123 mentions that UTD's apartment complex is in poor shape. Several of my friends at UTD lived there two years ago; one chose to go there rather than UT:Austin because of better housing options (four person, four bedroom apartments as freshmen) and cheaper tuition. They never seemed to have any complaints about the housing; however, after freshman year they all moved off campus to nearby, nicer apartments with cheaper rents. Perhaps they've fallen into disrepair since they lived there.</p>

<p>Most of them seem a bit unhappy about their campus experience, but I'm not sure if they ever tried to be a part of campus events.</p>

16

<p>Coming from a high schooler in Texas who knows a lot of people applying to and attending both UNT and UTD...I would say that for both schools, don't go unless there is a specific reason to be there. If you are really into dance or band directing or whatever, then UNT is fine. If you are really into science or something, UTD is fine. Otherwise, most people who go to those schools come back to where I live with lukewarm opinions. Nobody HATES them but certainly nobody LOVES them. I don't know about the parents on this board, but I wouldn't feel confident sending my child (well, paying for my child to attend) a place where there weren't many people who truly enjoyed their campus life/experience. </p>

<p>That may seem very pessimistic, but it's just what I've heard from people that I know. While the academic benefits of a school are always important, sometimes the way the school is viewed by actual students can be a tip-factor as well.</p>

17

<p>This thread is mind-boggling!</p>

<p>Inasmuch as I understand the generic nature of the OP's question, there is NO WAY to provide really helpful answers without defining what could be a good fit for the student. </p>

<p>Schools that have nothing in common are discussed and compared. However, should we not use SOME kind of criteria. </p>

<p>How can we compare UT in Dallas with UT in San Antonio? The first is an academicaaly challenging school that even offers a program which rivals one of the very the best scholarship in the country, namely the Morehead Scholarship. Enough of a lure for students admitted to Stanford to decide to attend the bare campus in Richardson. </p>

<p>On the other hand, and since the word dump has been used --harshly but quite correctly-- how could anyone describe UT San Antonio as anything but an academic wasteland? Among all schools in the UT system, San Antonio is at the very bottom. </p>

<p>Students attending UT Austin, UTD, or UTSA are not exactly interchangeable, especially if FIT is important.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
Inasmuch as I understand the generic nature of the OP's question, there is NO WAY to provide really helpful answers without defining what could be a good fit for the student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ahhh...the bane of College Confidential advice. It's actually stunning to me how often we see college recommendations without regard to fit and chances evaluations without even knowing the most fundamental information (like ethnicity, for example).</p>

19

<p>Who said anything about fit? If OP's kid wants to play jazz trumpet, UNT is the perfect fit. If he is a computer whiz who cares nothing about surroundings or social life, and thinks a winning chess team is a draw, UTD is a match. We answered what the colleges are like. OP has to judge the fit.</p>

<p>The apartment scandal at UTD was about 18 mos. ago. It was such a black eye that I am sure the main complaints were addressed quickly. You can read more about it here: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yaxad2%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tinyurl.com/yaxad2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

20

<p>To avoid confusion about my comments on the Morehead Scholarship at UNC and the McDermott at UTD, I'm reposting a part of of a former post, in which I discussed two of my former classmates:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, you need to make sure to find the gems that are hidden in state schools. You can read the reports of Eadad -on the old boards- that describes how his son decided on UNC over Yale because of the prestigious Morehead scholarship. Another friend of mine is attending UT-Dallas as a McDermott scholar after turning down a number of super selective schools like Stanford.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=109681%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=109681&lt;/a> - See post 25.</p>