Unusual Choice Set: Macalester vs Muhlenberg vs Lewis & Clark

College Search & Selection
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(First off, my apologies to the TL;DR crowd.)

Alright, folks, here’s a set of schools you aren’t typically going to see listed in the same post. Due to a fairly unique set of circumstances, we essentially started off our college search with the following oh-so-restrictive geographic requirement: “North America”. (Yes, we actually thought briefly about Canada but my D wants a small LAC environment so that effectively eliminated the very fine Canadian universities.)

Our D was admitted to several schools which have been winnowed down to the three listed in the title. She has received generous merit scholarships from all three, with Muhlenberg providing the highest amount, perhaps because that is Mom’s alma mater. Consequently, Muhlenberg is the least expensive option with the other two schools having an incremental cost as shown below:

Lewis & Clark: $3,900 more expensive per year ($15,600 4-year differential)
Macalester: $12,100 more expensive per year ($48,400 4-year differential)

For whatever it’s worth, Muhlenberg and Lewis & Clark seem to be ranked comparably to each other with Macalester ranked substantively higher.

Financially, we can afford to send her to any of the options but I’m value-driven so I’m struggling with “what do we get for our money” if we choose to send her to one of the more expensive options, particularly Macalester. Note that I would happily send her there if I could become convinced that there would be a demonstrable positive impact on her career prospects.

We’ve been to all three schools; D likes them all. And while the schools are quite different from each other, we think she would thrive at any of them. She intends to major in Biology with a possible Minor in Spanish; nothing we’ve seen so far would suggest one school’s Biology department is exceptionally better than another’s.

While we’re from sunny Colorado, D claims she won’t have an issue with the weather in Portland or St. Paul. (I’m skeptical but hey, it’s her choice, not mine.) Location-wise, Portland and Minneapolis/St. Paul are great cities with ample opportunities, Allentown…not so much (spoken as someone who grew up in PA). But of course, it is difficult to gauge how important the surrounding environs will be to her college experience.

Although I think we’ve done a fair amount of comparative research, there isn’t any key thing driving the decision to a particular school, aside from the cost differential. So I would be very interested to hear whatever thoughts folks out there have in case maybe we’ve failed to consider something.

BUT WAIT…there’s more. Just to make this more interesting, D was waitlisted at 5 great schools: Haverford, Carleton, Davidson, Bates and Colorado College. Of all the schools, Haverford and Carleton were her two favorites. Although it is a long-shot, I suppose there is a possibility one of these schools would ultimately offer her admittance. Let’s say for sake of argument, it was Carleton or Haverford and let’s say she gets no or minimal scholarship money from the school making that school roughly $27,000 more expensive per year ($107,600 4-year differential).

So this kind of boils down to two questions:

Given that she likes them all and we feel comfortable she’ll get a decent education at any of them, does anyone have a compelling argument for not simply making the decision on a cost basis?

Anybody think an education at the one of the 5 waitlisted schools is worth $107,600 more than Muhlenberg?

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I can relate, @pinozul. My kid is down to St. Olaf, U. of Puget Sound and Trinity U in TX, so we also cast a very wide net. Answering your second question first, as much admiration as I have for Carleton and Haverford, I personally would have a hard time justifying paying $60K more for them than Macalester. Mac is one of my favorite LACs, and, while not quite as highly ranked as Carleton or Haverford, I think it’s fair to call it a peer institution. Fabulous place.

The Mac vs Muhlenberg or L&C is harder for me. It really comes down to two things, in my view: how cost sensitive you are, and how your kid feels. If your kid is the kind who flourishes when they’re surrounded by the brightest and most interesting peers they can find, I’d lean heavily toward Macalester. I think you’re going to find stronger teaching, brighter kids and a more academically serious environment there. It’s also got triple the endowment of the other two schools, which is going to translate into better facilities, and probably better student/faculty ratio. Whether those kinds of things can be quantified into translating directly into greater career success, I don’t know, but I think they have real value. If it were my kid, I’d probably pony up for Mac, unless one of the other schools really spoke to them for some other reasons. But only you can answer how much pain that extra cost is going to exact on your family finances.

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Those are some of the same schools my Ds applied to. The younger went to L&C (after being waitlisted at Carleton) and loved it there. One of the students in her class in the running for the Rena Ratte award for the top graduate was a bio major who went directly into a PhD program at UCB. No issues with support from the bio dept from what I can see. My D had no problem with the rain but like you, I think that’s dependent on the individual.

Good luck

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rayrick, Student ratio is 10/1 at Macalester versus 11/1 at Muhlenberg and Muhlenberg has amazing facilities. I don’t think that you should simply look at a schools endowment and make assumptions. Muhlenberg is filled with bright and interesting students. I don’t know the biology department other then by reputation but it does have an outstanding reputation. I would suggest that all three schools offer quality educations and it may come down to which school the student finds to be the best fit. I would suggest the student visit each school. Spend the day. Sit in on a class. Hang in the student union, talk to everyone and at the end of all the visits see which one feels like the best fit.

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The stats for Muhlenberg kids on average are lower than Macalester but there is a reason. It is due to the fact performing arts are such a big component of the student population at Muhlenberg.

Endowment is important but Muhlenberg at a quarter billion dollars on 2500 is more than sufficient.

University of Scranton has far less and some of the best academc science and pre-professional science facilities in the country.

Many schools fund differently, for example capital campaigns for specific projects.

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I’m not trying to slam either Muhlenberg or L&C – I think they’re terrific schools and I’m sure plenty of kids have great experiences there. It’s not an easy call. I answered honestly what I would probably do, but I can fully understand and respect those who would make a different call.

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I appreciate all the feedback because it certainly can be a tough call when you’re fortunate enough to have several good options. But for a data-driven, engineering-type like myself, the whole process just drives me nuts, given the marketing hype of the institutions, the non-transparency of the process, and the overwhelmingly subjectivity of it all.

In my little fantasy world, I would love to see the Admissions Officers of the more prestigious and more expensive institutions attempt to “prove” the incremental value of their institution based on measurable outcomes for several different sets of students (math/engineering, science, theater/arts, etc.). I’m quite certain that would prove to be an embarrassing exercise for many.

I do console myself with the thought that we’re lucky to be in a position where it is very unlikely that we could make a “bad decision”. (I just have to fight that engineering urge to make the “correct” decision.)
:slight_smile:

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Actually we currently have Muhlenberg, Mac and some PNW schools on our daughter’s current list of possible places to apply and we are also in the mountain west. If your daughter doesn’t have a strong preference, I’d say follow the money.

Lewis & Clark, by the way, does not offer easy access to Portland, at least according to a friend of mine who visited. The bus is once per hour and does not run on weekends. Maybe something to consider if Portland is a draw.

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The bus does run on weekends. https://www.lclark.edu/offices/transportation_and_parking/shuttle/

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The bus runs roughly hourly on weekdays and weekends; see link above.

We were just there this past weekend and we got pretty much universal feedback from the students we talked to that the bus service was “awesome”. I think it effectively links L&C to downtown Portland almost as if they were right next door. Good thing too…because otherwise that campus would feel very isolated. One of the girls said that she and her friends will commonly head into Portland on a weekend day and spend 6 to 8 hours there, studying in coffee shops, eating dinner, and generally hanging out.

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Muhlenberg is full of exceptional, bright and hardworking students. For some perspective, my daughter, who attends Muhlenberg, had an A average in high school and a 34 on her ACT (99th percentile). She is very impressed with the students. And also, many theater students are also pre-med or double majors in other academic subjects. I wouldn’t assume the theater kids are less smart than other kids in the school. One of the draws to Muhlenberg for us was the warm and supportive community.

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@pinozul and @“Erin’s Dad” - thanks for the corrective. I was misinformed. Maybe L&C is worth another look. :wink:

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@pinozul-- I’m not an engineer but I agree with you entirely with “I would love to see the Admissions Officers of the more prestigious and more expensive institutions attempt to “prove” the incremental value of their institution based on measurable outcomes for several different sets of students.” All those fancy brochures don’t say as much as I need them to in order to justify paying so much more for one place that seems quite comparable to another but offers entirely different amounts of scholarship. It would be good if costs were comparable so kids could focus entirely on fit.I know this isn’t the way of the world, though :slight_smile:

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I seem to be getting pretty badly outvoted here, and I readily concede that the views of parents of kids who actually attended the institutions in question should get more weight than mine.

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Wow, I didn’t really expect this level of engagement when I posted early this morning. Thanks so much for all the comments.

And just for fun, everybody, feel free to weigh in on my last question in the original post:

Anybody think an education at [Bates, Carleton, Colorado College, Davidson, Haverford] is worth at least $100,000 more than an education at Muhlenberg?

So far, I’d say we have 1 “I doubt it” from @rayrick although his/her comment was really in comparison to Macalester.

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My answer is that it really comes down to what you family can comfortably afford and what colleges you prefer. If the extra $25K/year is no problem for your family then you certainly can consider any higher priced option you consider to be preferable for any reason. If it means loans etc. then go to Muhlenberg as long as you feel you can be happy there.

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Well, to clarify I don’t really find any of it “comfortable”. :frowning: We could choose to pay for a higher priced school but it would have a material effect on our finances. That choice would have to be for a really, really good reason, not just “any reason”.

I guess part of what I was trying to achieve was to see if I could tease out any comment where someone said: “Absolutely XYZ school is worth $xx,xxx per year more and here is why” where the “why” must be compelling.

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@Pinozul that is a really hard call. I know that Davidson is no cake walk to get into and is very highly regarded as are the other schools. It came down to money for us. We just couldn’t wrap our heads around paying $60,000 a year for schools that were excellent schools but not top top schools ( not sure we would have been willing to go into debt for top top schools!) . We received a very generous scholarship from Muhlenberg and, when it came down to it in the end, our daughter fell in love with Muhlenberg and thought it was her best fit. Everyone was so incredibly nice, welcoming and enthusiastic. She could have gone to more prestigious schools, but who knows if she would have been as happy as she is now.

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If your student is seriously considering grad school then choose Muhlenberg and give her the rest of the money in four years. The minor difference in the undergrad experience will be easily offset by avoiding a mountain of loans later.