<p>There is a lot of misinformation on this site. Penn and Cornell each accepted the exact same percentage of ED applicants this year - 32%. The average SAT of admitted applicants this year is also the same [Penn 2178 for all 3 parts, Cornell 1450 verbal and math].</p>
<p>I know for a fact that penn admitted close to 50% through ED, links to the average sats please?</p>
<p>oh my apologies if it was 14%. But eh theres cases of people like that getting into a lot of places that are in the top, (minorites usually)</p>
<p>my friend was rejected cornell enginerring but got in columbia </p>
<p>and there is a host of people rejected from cornell but got in harvard etc</p>
<p>Penn, in accepting half the class ED, admitted 32% of the applicants [the same ED admit rate as Cornell]. This, and the SAT scores of the admitted classes, were reported in the Daily Pennsylvanian and the Cornell Daily Sun [think may have been the 4/14 Sun].</p>
<p>Actually the April 13 Cornell Daily Sun. Btw, for the class of 2013, Penn and Cornell admit rates were very similar [Penn - 18%, Cornell 19%], despite Penn admitting a much larger percentage of the class early, which obviously lowers admit rates.</p>
<p>The overall admit rate (total accepted / total that applied) would still be the same, regardless of how many applicants are accepted ED or RD.</p>
<p>Also, while Cornell could fill its class with applicants who got perfect (or near perfect) scores, most of those applicants would choose HYPMSC, Penn, Dartmouth, etc as shown by cross admit data, leaving Cornell with a slightly weaker student body (I didn’t say there aren’t exceptions, but generally speaking).</p>
<p>And Castiel, Cornell engineering is a different entity. It’s probably one of the best engineering programs anywhere.</p>
<p>Honestly, once Wharton gets brought into the mix (which is easy to do when it comes to economics), Cornell can’t win.</p>
<p>Guys, as much as you would like it to be, Cornell is not in the same league as Penn. Cornell is as far away from Penn, as Penn is from HYPSM (granted, this difference is marginal at best and it will keep getting smaller). The truth is the top tier is HYPSM followed closely by Penn, Cal Tech, Columbia, Brown and Dartmouth. Which are closely followed by Cornell, Duke, Hopkings, northwestern e.t.c</p>
<p>ok i have just skimmed through this thread so maybe someone has already made the point i am going to but nevertheless i just want to say that in south asia (more specifically the indian sub-continent) Penn is WAYYY more prominent than Cornell. Im sure ilovebagels, a more senior poster too will agree due to his proximity to the indian subcontinent. I am not saying that cornell is a bad institute for education but back here truthfully one is laughed at if he chooses cornell over penn (yes even for engineering). maybe its just the fact that penn has had alot of meetings/events in india over the last few decades and that some of the indian subcontinent’s most affluent people have graduated from penn that makes penn more prominent but it definitely is. again cornell is good to but truthfully cannot even be compared in this aspect.</p>
<p>and please dont get me started on wharton vs ‘any other ivy except harvard’ in terms of prestige. back here in india, most people will refuse absolutely ANYTHING for wharton (maybe its just the business oriented mindset or summin that is present in our culture :P) </p>
<p>there are of course people who do apply to cornell and who do infact go to cornell post-matriculation from hs but i have never heard of anyone back here rejecting penn for cornell. columbia too has a much better presence back here than cornell and in fact out of 4 people who have gotten into cornell from my hs, only 1 is going to cornell the others have chosen- fu college at columbia, penn seas and stanford.</p>
<p>despite heading to penn this fall and choosing it over some other pretty good UK colleges, i do not completely agree that in academics cornell is ‘far away’ from penn. greenexcess i completely understand ur passion and sentiments as you probably are a penn bound student too but then again cornell has some pretty amazing professors and courses. imo it has the best engineering department of all ivies and probably the best engineering dept in the northeast of US itself (barring MIT obv). so one cant call it far way from penn. its just that ithaca’s surroundings and the entire atmosphere of cornell is probably not as great as that of penn and the alumni network too is proly not as good as penns. but overall im sure that one can attain a great education at either institute. it boils down to academic interest and social preferences. but it is pretty evident that cornell students dont have the exact same standard of education and opportunities post graduation though they are very very close.</p>
<p>Although the NRC rankings are now old it is interesting to take a look at them.
It is usually the source of rankings that faculty most closely look at.
It is also the rankings that administrators often look at when evaluating departments.
The following gives an overall comparison of five areas. It is possible to also look
department by department. Although there will be some changes to the list
in the next survey there is still much to learn from the old list.
The first thing to learn is that some universities that are ranked high for undergrad
by us news are also high on this list. These universities are very stable for rankings.
Everyone agrees that Caltech, MIT, Stanford for example are wonderful at what they do.</p>
<p>For places like Brown, Cornell and Penn people usually say that they are really good but
a more detailed comparison needs to be done field by field. For example Penn is very good in economics perhaps around number 10 or a little higher. Cornell is excellent in engineering. Brown has a very strong applied mathematics group. I could go on.
Take a look and slow down a little in comments that say clearly better etc</p>
<p>[NRC</a> Rankings](<a href=“NRC Rankings”>NRC Rankings)</p>
<p>almost 20 years can make a big difference</p>
<p>US News is widely known for being biased so I think it’s safe to say that we can disregard that argument all together. Many of you guys are taking the superficial view that employers will judge the university you graduated from by selectivity but, lets be honest, that isn’t the only factor, let alone a minor one. But if you want to compare selectivity anyway, University of Pennsylvania definitely trumps Cornell, and we haven’t even reached Wharton yet. Wharton’s acceptance rate is lower than that of Harvard, Yale and Princeton (last year it was about 6%). Furthermore, I haven’t seen it being ranked fifth, every time I checked it was ranked first.</p>
<p>HYP have the highest average SAT scores because they created the spiral effect. They boasted about the number of 2400s they rejected and it caused a sensation - kids everywhere wanted to get into HYP just so they could boast about their achievement. Getting in is a achievement, but once you graduate, the difference in salary between, say, HYP and Cornell is small compared to what your earning. Furthermore, employers know this. They don’t care that you went to Harvard over the other applicant that went to UPenn, what they see is that you went to Wharton, the best undergraduate business school in the world, and therefore you learnt more about the actual trade at that business as opposed to the prestigious Harvard, and thus you will be able to bring them more profit.</p>
<p>If you really want to compare, look at some of the published data by the colleges. Many of them publish reports regarding how the class that recently graduated is doing in terms of work and salary. Last time I saw, the average Wharton graduate earned $60000 a year, with an average of $10000 signing bonus, and a $50000 annual bonus if they went into investment banking. I cannot, personally, see an Economics degree from Cornell giving you the potential to earn more than $120,000 a year the moment you graduate, so I would say Wharton > Cornell (by the way, even though Wharton is a business school you graduate with a BS Economics so it is a fair comparison).</p>
<p>Yes 20 years can make a great difference. The point of the post was to show how
difficult it is to make general statements about the academic strengths of the
University faculty. There are a few exceptions. Berkeley was and is, I believe, still strong
across almost all fields. The same goes for Harvard and a few others.
Most other very very good universities such as Penn or Cornell have strong and weak areas.
By weak I really mean relatively weak. For example although Cornell is perhaps stronger overall in engineering, Penn is very very strong in biomedical engineering. This is still the case today. </p>
<p>I think that if you took a close look you would find some areas where Cornell is clearly stronger than Penn, some where they are similar and some where Penn is clearly stronger.</p>
<p>The same statement would not hold for Berkeley. Berkeley would be stronger in terms of faculty reputation in almost all fields. I still expect that there are a few where Penn or Cornell would be strongest and a few where comparable.</p>
<p>These links provides last year admission data. Penn had a 18% admit rate, and Cornell a 19% admit. Again Penn takes 50% ED, while Cornell 33% (give or take) ED. One can argue that based on that, Cornell is more selective. With that being said, when you look at the stats the students in both schools are basically the same. My point is, Cornell is not better than Penn or Penn better than Cornell, as twocollge stated they both have stronger and weaker areas when being compared. These stats are for people that has an obsession with statistics to make a fruitless claim. This thread is becoming about ego, and self gratification for some.</p>
<p>While you are looking, please look at the other Ivies also.</p>
<p>Break yourself from a confined mindset, open your eyes, and see the world for what it is.</p>
<p>[Cornell</a> University - SAT Scores and Admissions Data for Cornell University](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/Cornell_profile.htm]Cornell”>Cornell University: Acceptance Rate, SAT/ACT Scores)</p>
<p>[University</a> of Pennsylvania Profile - SAT Scores and Admissions Data for the University of Pennsylvania - Penn](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/penn_profile.htm]University”>University of Pennsylvania: Acceptance Rate, SAT/ACT, GPA)</p>
<p>TaeQuonDoe, your argument about Penn possibly being less selective makes no sense. When determining the overall admit rate, all that matters is the total number of people who applied and the total number of people accepted.</p>
<p>Also, you say “as twocollege stated,” but I’ve said repeatedly that Cornell engineering is superior. Just because twocollege supports Cornell, it doesn’t make all the Penn people completely biased and unwilling to acknowledge Cornell’s strengths.</p>
<p>Answering the OP’s question, it’s hard to refute that Penn economics wins, due to the opportunities to associate oneself with Wharton (even if attending CAS).</p>
<p>@DoleWhip, my argument makes perfect sense. The higher the amount of ED acceptance, compared to a broader pool, does bring down one’s admit rate. If Cornell had admitted 50% ED has Penn did, Cornell would most definately have a far lower admit rate than Penn (maybe around 13%). My point is that when one speaks of admit rates it is laughable, because any school can manipulate those rates with ED acceptance, waitlist numbers, etc. That should not be a factor in any conversation. why are we so obsessive on who is better? Why do we seek to boost our egos every chance we get? why do we life for self gratifications? It would be real humbling if one could acknowledge these fine universities for what they are, instead of beating the ego drums on which one is better.</p>
<p>@Akkipenn, where in India are you from? My best friend is Punjabi, and never heard of Penn until he came here last year. he actually never really heard of Brown or Dartmouth either.</p>
<p>Dolewhip, I actually support both Penn and Cornell! I think both are fine institutions.
I agree that Penn has the stronger economics department and programs. If however we were to look at arts and sciences then we will find strengths and comparative weaknesses in each. As evidence of my support for Penn I even pointed out that although Cornell is stronger in engineering Penn is really strong in bioengineering.</p>
<p>Taekwondo. Perhaps the reason your friend has not heard of Dartmouth and Brown is that
they do not really have as many top research departments. For their size they do well but it is very difficult to compete with larger institutions. There are some small universities such as Princeton and Chicago which can compete but most strong research schools are larger than Dartmouth or Brown. That being said Brown is strong in some fields. Applied math comes to mind but not for example Physics, Chemistry or Biology. I do not believe that economics is particularly strong either.
On the other hand perhaps Brown does a good job teaching Physics and Chemistry. Then
it would perhaps be more appropriate to make a comparison with a LAC. Most liberal arts colleges are not well known overseas although they can provide a fine education.</p>
<p>I did say in my first post that all these schools are great for different reasons; I have a friend who’s really excited for ILR at Cornell, another who’s going to do PLME at Brown, marine biology at Stanford, etc.</p>
<p>That said, in responding to the OP’s concerns, it’s necessary to point out the relevant distinctions. Maybe admit rate isn’t so relevant, but access to Wharton facilities, events, etc. is important.</p>
<p>@TaeKwonDo: i refuse to believe that your friend had heard of Cornell but not Penn, Brown and Dartmouth. I never said that it all people know abt the ivies and US Colleges at all because many Indians tend to go to college in India itself and therefore have NO idea about most foreign colleges. However they do know (just by word of mouth of HYP,MIT and Wharton [though probably not knowing that wharton is in Penn]). But then again thats because they have no intention of gaining their higher education in the states. </p>
<p>But if u look at any school that has students going to the states and ivies in particular, back here u will find a MUCH greater attraction to penn. As i said its alumni networks, various events and a the much hyped and much-awaited new Penn campus that is going to open in a few years time in Mumbai [where im from and yes Penn is soon going to open a campus for some courses and major research here] helps the prestige too. </p>
<p>A few stats from my school that will intrigue you (a class of 91 students of which about 60 want to go abroad of which about 45 want to go to the US) [we are allowed applications to a MAX of 8 colleges in the states exclusive of the UC system]-</p>
<p>Applications to Penn- 32 (5 accepted- 2 ED, 3 RD)
Applications to Harvard- 6 (1 accepted, 1 waitlisted, 4 rejected)
Applications to Yale- (8 [3 ED, 6 RD]- 1 accepted, 7 rejected)
Applications to Brown- 19 (5 accepted, 4 waitlisted, 10 rejected)
Applications to Columbia- 21 (5 accepted, 3 waitlisted, 13 rejected [including 2 ED])
Applications to Dartmouth- 3 (3 rejected)
Applications to Princeton- 4 (1 accepted, 1 waitlisted, 2 rejected)
Applications to Cornell- 13 (4 accepted, 1 waitlisted, 8 rejected)</p>
<p>there are overlaps in the above profile obviously. </p>
<p>One can clearly see the difference in the applications to Penn and Cornell and the selectivity here. In mumbai there are about 3-4 schools that regularly send students to ivies out of which my school is the most prominent. Also, the penn class of 2014 includes about 11-13 people from mumbai (i know this through various meetings we have had which are organised by the penn alumni networks) whereas my friend says approximately 4-6 people are actually going to cornell this fall from mumbai despite more getting in. the numbers pretty much show how penn is favored back here. and this just somewhat helps me prove that penn is way more known back here. just known, im not sure abt the academic fields but penn is a much better fit cause most US-bound students are the ones who are studying in the more developed and hence more urban areas of india and thus maybe want a city-campus feel cause thats what theyre used to. plus the HUGEEE number of indians in Penn helps too 
</p>
<p>i know of one guy in my school who just applied to wharton abroad. he didnt get in but for him the only incentive for going abroad was wharton otherrwise he would prefer to stay back home and go to college here. Another girl in my school just applied to brown, penn, columbia. got into all 3 she is coming with me to penn this fall. i mean to come to think of it back here cornell seems like a duke/northwestern compared to penn which seems like a HYPM. again, im not talking abt academics or anything. as i have already said in my previous posts, cornell and penn are not at all ‘far away’ in terms of academics. im just talking about international recognition and prestige of both colleges in India.</p>
<p>And to add, last year in my school we had a college presentation in which the college guidance counselor for US bound students was running a bit late so the UK college guidance counselor tried to mention some parts abt the US application and while doing into details about the ivies and their benefits she knew most ivies (she didnt need to as she had nothing to do with the US and for years had been concentrating on the UK) but ddnt know 2 ivies. she just knew 6 and thought that there were 6 ivies. the 2 ivies which she ddnt know were- dartmouth and cornell. i hope that helps me make my point abt international recognition. :)</p>