<p>The writers house at penn is very attractive, but i'm a little put off by people who say students at penn are mostly pre-professional and "not intellectual" -- which is basically the opposite of the stereotype of chicago students. i want to be a writer or an academic (likely to major in english or something in the humanities), so i'm still deciding between the two schools (though i'm leaning towards penn atm). any suggestions/advice are much appreciated.</p>
<p>Both schools’ English departments are comparably ranked in the academic world. At the graduate level (which is a good proxy for undergraduate ranking), Penn’s English department was ranked at #4 (tied with Columbia and Harvard) and Chicago’s was ranked at #7 (tied with Cornell and Princeton) in US News:</p>
<p>[Rankings</a> - English - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-english-schools/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-english-schools/rankings)</p>
<p>and in the old National Research Council ranking from the 1990s, Penn’s English department was ranked at #8 while Chicago’s was ranked at #10:</p>
<p>[NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas](<a href=“NRC Rankings in Each of 41 Areas”>NRC Rankings in Each of 41 Areas)</p>
<p>Don’t let the “pre-professional” stereotypes and generalizations put you off–Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences has 6400 undergrads, and there are plenty of “intellectual” students with whom one can mingle. :)</p>
<p>Also, on the subject of the Kelly Writer’s House, if you haven’t already read it, you should take a look at this article from The New York Times:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/education/05writers.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/education/05writers.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1</a></p>
<p>Can’t speak to Chicago, which I’m sure is fine - but Kelly’s Writer’s House at Penn is outstanding - great visitor’s series and fabulous online community as an extension of the writing community there, where lit is celebrated as a living art rather than artifact. As to “pre-professional”: at Penn intellectualism shacks up just fine with pre-professionalism (which hardly seems like a bad thing after the investment you and your family are considering) - I always perceived the pre-professional element as value-added to an outstanding liberal arts education. It certainly never got in the way!</p>
<p>One of my absolute favorite places to mingle with intellectuals at Penn was the Philomathean Society, the oldest continually operating student group in the country. Philo undergrads published the first English translation of the Rosetta Stone, and the people are an amazing bunch.</p>
<p>[Philomathean</a> Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philomathean_Society]Philomathean”>Philomathean Society - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>I think to be a good writer requires as broad experience as possible, and precisely because Penn has so many kinds of people attending it (I made friends in the Law School, Wharton MBA, PennDesign, Penn Vet, and of course all 4 undergrad schools), it’s all the more inspiration to draw from.</p>
<p>They’re not all Patrick Batemans, you know ;)</p>
<p>My daughter was pretty much like you, except she never applied to Penn (despite being reasonably certain to be admitted) because it was too close to home and she knew too many people there. She went to the University of Chicago, and had a great experience. She was an English major, took several of the writing courses offered, and was involved (as extra-curricular activity, and for pay) in fiction-writing and publishing, journalism, and editing. </p>
<p>At one point, at the end of her second year, she said: “You know, if I had understood how much I could learn from creative writing classes, and how important they would be to me, I would have approached my college search differently. I might still have decided to go to Chicago, but I really should have thought harder about Penn and Hopkins, too. They do a much better job at teaching writing and helping people start careers.”</p>
<p>Having been through college and medical school admissions, I can say with confidence that there’s no “reasonable certainty” regarding admissions decisions unless your parents have a building named after them at the school.</p>
<p>At the time, that wasn’t true in this particular case. I was in the room when someone who had the ability to deliver said “If you want to go to Penn you will be accepted.” But that’s completely beside the point.</p>
<p>Interesting…although I did have a friend for whom the dean of a very prestigious medical school wrote a letter of recommendation and still was not accepted.</p>