Upitt or Brandeis---$8k difference....

<p>So here is my dilemna. Undecided major. Still waiting to hear back from some top colleges but so far out of the ones I've been accepted to, it's between Pitt or Brandeis.</p>

<p>Tuitions + fees for Pitt would be around 22k for me (still have not received financial aid package, but guessing I will receive little grant. Maybe 2k at most). </p>

<p>Tuition + fees for Brandeis would be around 30k.</p>

<p>I've visited Pitt and liked the college, but not the city. </p>

<p>Visited Boston, loved the city. Did not get a chance to see Brandeis. </p>

<p>If I will be paying for this 8k difference, is Brandeis worth the extra cost? I'm worried of two things:</p>

<ol>
<li>Pitt's tuition and/or faculties taking a hit with the recent 50% budget cut</li>
<li>Brandeis 19k scholarship, which was critical to bringing the cost down to a reasonable level, might not still be there in future years. Do colleges ever do a "switch and bait" where they offer scholarships for freshmen year and take them away for future years?</li>
</ol>

<p>Honestly, while you can’t go wrong with either one, Brandeis is definitely in a league of its own, but I would definitely visit before enrolling there. It’s a teeny school (in my opinon) and that’s not for everyone, especially in contrast to Pitt. Both are great schools though, and again, it might also depend on your major. Pitt is fantastic for the sciences, but as you stated, the Pennsylvania cuts are not going to help.</p>

<p>I highly doubt Brandeis would take away your scholarship unless your GPA went below the requirement, which is usually around a 3.0.</p>

<p>Well it was an Alumni and Trustee scholarship, which isn’t guaranteed for 4 years.</p>

<p>I actually like the sound of a small school. My favorite classes in high school have been the small and personal ones. Hmmm, I’d like to visit it before making a choice…maybe during spring break! </p>

<p>And Pitt’s sciences is what is keeping it in consideration. I feel like I am going to end up in a science or humanitarian field, as I seem to enjoy sciences and english the most.</p>

<p>Brandeis also is quite strong in the sciences, particularly biological sciences.</p>

<p>The cultures of the two schools are quite different. Brandeis thinks of itself as an academically elite school, which it mostly is. While it is generally thought of as below the Ivies, it is quite comparable to Tufts, Emory, Vanderbilt, etc. Pitt, on the other hand, is a fine public institution but no one would suggest that it is academically elite–at least not at the undergraduate level.</p>

<p>Brandeis. You got a scholarship too.</p>

<p>I really think you should visit Brandeis if at all possible. I think there’s a big difference between Boston, which you really liked, and Waltham. Being in Cambridge is like being in Boston; being in Waltham, IMO, much less so. You may feel differently, but you ought to take a look if you can.</p>

<p>Is Brandeis’ campus anything like Tufts? I visited Tufts and loved it.</p>

<p>I didn’t think so, SoulReaver.</p>

<p>I’d never visited Tufts before we took my daughter there last spring. Tufts looks very campus-y, with all that Georgian architecture and whatnot. Tufts feels relatively close to Boston and Cambridge, I think, and Davis Sq. is a much more hopping place than it was back when I was in Boston in the early-to-mid '80s.</p>

<p>Brandeis has mostly modern architecture; I think it looks less college-y. And, as I’ve said, I think Brandeis feels more remote from Boston than Tufts does.</p>

<p>Now, my daughter really liked Brandeis. I preferred Tufts. I don’t know which one will appeal to you more, but I wouldn’t recommend going to either one based on your impression of the other.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice. I will try to visit the campus during Spring Break. </p>

<p>The $32k additional over 4 years seems like a lot to stomach the more I think about it.</p>

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<p>My D2 just visited both Tufts and Brandeis. She loved the Tufts campus, mostly charming classic red-brick architecture and a hilltop setting with views of the Boston skyline which gives it an “urban” and connected feel. She was unimpressed with Brandeis, which she described as mostly drab and utilitarian (but functional) 1950’s architecture. To her, the setting also felt more remote from Boston. Having never visited either campus I can’t vouch for any of this. </p>

<p>The Brandeis student body is definitely a cut above Pitt—about 100 points higher (CR + M) at both the 25th and 75th percentile levels. Largely a function of smaller size allowing it to be more selective. But if you do the numbers it’s clear there are actually far more (about 3 times as many) 1400+ SAT CR+M scorers at Pitt than at the much smaller Brandeis.</p>

<p>As for financial stability, I expect both schools to face some financial challenges in the next few years. Brandeis never had a huge endowment and it took a real beating in the recession and in the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme, to the point it was forced to close its art museum and sell off the collection to raise cash. It’s also been forced to retreat from need-blind/meets 100% of need to partially need-aware. I don’t know how dependent Pitt is on its state appropriations or how deep the cuts will be, but many publics are facing substantial cuts. They’re not all equal in this regard, however. Ironically, the best-off publics may be those like Michigan and Virginia that have already been substantially weaned from state aid in prior years’ budget cuts, and have responded by evolving into a quasi-private model.</p>

<p>Brandeis is not worth 8K X 4 = 32K more than Pitt - not even close. I would opt for Pitt</p>

<p>Some of the information above from Bclintonk is not accurate. Brandeis, like most schools, did take a hit to its endowment in 2008-2009 due to the recession and its effect on investments. But the hit it took was no greater than incurred by most schools, and far less than some (e.g., Harvard’s endowment loss was far greater although it is still, by far, the largest endowment). Brandeis never closed its art museum and never sold off any art. The trustees did discuss this possibility of selling art in the event necessary to protect the educational mission of the university (which led to all the bad publicity) but, in fact, it never happened. You can go visit the Rose Art Museum today if you want. Also, it is a myth that Brandeis lost money in the Madoff scheme. What is true is that Brandeis’ budget was more reliant upon current philanthropy (i.e., as opposed to gifts to endowment) than many of its peer schools and some of those philanthropists (such as Carl and Ruth Shapiro) were effected by Madoff. Brandeis was also disproportionately effected by a Massachusetts law (since changed) that prohibited any use of endowment funds (interest or principal) when the current value of the endowment dipped below its original value. Brandeis, being a relatively young school, had significant amounts of endowment funds in this position. Harvard, being founded in 1636, was impacted far less by this law.</p>

<p>Brandeis has largely emerged from its financial crisis. As the stock market has recovered, so has Brandeis’ endowment and the Massachusetts legislature amended the law to make it more rationale while still protecting charitable endowments. Although Brandeis was forced to withdraw its guarantee of need blind admissions, the admissions office reports that almost all students (99%?) were admitted on a need blind basis.</p>

<p>As to the campus, I think that there are a lot of similarities between Tufts’ campus and Brandeis’. Athough the architecture is different (traditional versus modern), both campuses are similar in size (Brandeis’ is a bit larger) and both are built on hills. Your calves will get good workouts at either. And both offer views of the Boston skyline (there is a plaza on the east side of Usen Castle at Brandeis which offers a spectacular view of Boston). I acknowledge that most people are more attracted to the traditional architecture at Tufts (I am as well) although if you talk to architects, most of them prefer Brandeis. Its a matter of taste. Brandeis is a little further from downtown Boston than is Tufts, but the difference is not substantial. The biggest difference in location is that you can pick up the T (subway) at Davis Sq., a short walk from Tufts. Brandeis has a commuter rail station on campus, but commuter rail runs far less often than the subway and is more expensive.</p>

<p>My kids looked at both Tufts and Brandeis (on the same day). Tufts is a more classic / traditional type of campus – fairly easy to like. Brandeis is more architecturally unique and there will be some people for whom it’s a disadvantage. My kids liked it fine, but the point is - it’s not a “neutral” type of campus. I disagree that Tufts and Brandeis have equal proximity to Boston. Tufts is very first-ring-out and Brandeis feels a lot further out.</p>

<p>I didn’t say that they were the same distance from Boston, I said that Brandeis was further but that the difference was not substantial. Tufts is 5 miles from Boston, and Brandeis is 9. I don’t consider 4 miles to be significant.</p>

<p>In terms of access, the T that’s right there and runs all the time <em>is</em> easier access than commuter rail that runs less frequently. That’s just what it is. It’s not dissing Brandeis. My D will be going to another suburban school in Boston that doesn’t have easy access to downtown, either. Whether that’s important or not is in the eye of the given student.</p>

<p>If the OP is very religious, shouldn’t the differences in religion between UofPitt and Brandeis be considered here?</p>

<p>There is no difference in religion. Pitt is a public institution and, therefore, non-secular. Brandeis is a private institution, but also non-secular. It is true that Brandeis was founded and originally funded by the Jewish Community to provide access to top-quality Jewish students who were being discriminated against in admissions by other top universities through the use of quotas. But Brandeis is not a religious institution. It is and always has been non-secular. Half of Brandeis’ undergraduates are not Jewish and the vast majority of graduate students are not Jewish. There are Protestant and Catholic chapels on campus as well as a Muslim prayer space. </p>

<p>Brandeis does have a higher percentage of Jews in its undergraduate population than Pitt (the graduate student population is probably comparable). But many universities (Harvard, Penn, Columbia, NYU, BU, Tufts–just to name a few) have significant Jewish student populations. I don’t know why this would be an issue.</p>

<p>Bonanza, I think you mean non-religious.</p>

<p>And, really, if religious affiliation is very important to SoulReaver, I’m sure that SoulReaver can work that part out for himself or herself.</p>

<p>Both schools are excellent. Congratulations for getting accepted. Definitely visit and compare. Are loans already part of the package? How much in loans will you be taking out for each school? How would you come up with the $8K a year difference? </p>

<p>Also important is whether that merit award is renewable. I would be very nervous if there were a decent chance that it can be pulled. I would get more information on how likely that is. How have others with that award fared?</p>

<p>If the OP is really that deeply religious then I’m sure she’s considered this already. </p>

<p>If money were no object I would go with Brandeis but $32k is nothing to sneeze at, so if you’d be equally happy at Pitt, then you can graduate having saved that much more.</p>