So many posts arguing apples sand oranges. If you don’t walk in my shoes…don’t argue that you think they are too large!!
35 minute train ride to midtown, 1800 sq ft. Taxes $20k. When I bought it they were 8k. The facts of others’ lives are not debatable! And AMT is not for the wealthy, it’s for those in high income and property tax regions, as these, as well as lots of kids, push you into it. I’m a single mom, and the exemption for head of household is the same a for single. So I get pushed into it quickly!
Why don’t I vote with my feet? Sure I could move to parts of the Midwest and pay 75% less for a house, but my income would drop commensurately. And somebody has to pay that COA!!
In summary, about 1/4 of your Duke tuition goes to professors, 1/4 goes to fund other people’s tuition, and 1/4 goes to administration. The other fourth goes to facilities and other vague categories. In a related article in the Duke Chronicle, Duke acknowledges that the number of students from low income families has not changed, and those from high income families have gone up, meaning that those in the middle are being squeezed out. Didn’t seem to bother Duke it all, it just is the natural result of their strategy.
So, from the data, paying for growing administrations and paying for financial aid do seem to be two large drivers of increases in the costs of private education at an “elite” university.
^Because I didn’t fancy paying 3 x 25k per year for a lecture room of 400 lead by TA’s covering material already done in high school on a campus of 45k, but that was my choice. Where was there any sense of entitlement? I am suggesting $250k is too much to pay for an undergraduate degree for someone in the not mega wealthy bracket (or any bracket for that matter) so I have chosen in not to do so, but my decision means tuition is going abroad. I am not sure the states you mentioned have an Arabic course taught by world experts in their field from the first day she steps on campus, and if they did the price is the same, so moot really…
You don’t need to make the choice between $250,000 total vs big state U vs abroad. My state U has a smaller LAC campus and before merit aid it comes in at $22,000 per year. Being OOS only add $2,000 per year. A solid education at a bargain price.
And regarding worrying about a salary drop if you move to the midwest, your income will not drop by 75%. My husband’s didn’t drop at all, we were able to buy for what our rent had been, and our car insurance dropped by half.
edited to add: The $22,000 price tag is unaffordable for the low and true middle income especially if they don’t get much in merit aid. We live 35 minutes across snowswept fields and roads from the nearest community college. The cost of a car and insurance and gas is enough of a barrier for many kids in my area.
^Good point about more LAC like state schools. NJ, for instance, has TCNJ, if Rutgers is too big for you. Both are places where students get excellent educations.
again Snowball…those are your shoes…in MY shoes my income drops 75%. Many highly specific jobs only pay very well in NY. Outside of that, you become a generalist, and salary drops. If the job is nothighly specialized, or not very high paying, you might not see a drop. Me? It would drop like a rock!
I’m from the midwest, so you needn’t school me on it. And my point was, people need to stop arguing that someone else’s experience is not right. It’s their experience. You can only guess at it.
"In 1963, private school tuition costs $13,827 in 2013 dollars.
20 years later in 1983, there was only a mild increase to $17,333 in 2013 dollars.
20 years after that in 2003, tuition increased to $31,091 in 2013 dollars.
10 years later in 2013, private non-for-profit tuition averaged $40,614."
Note that that is without taking in to account merit aid and fin aid, which has increased since the '60’s.
But in any case, the problem many people have is that they don’t seem to realize that elite private tuition before the mid-'80’s was severely underpriced. Seriously, just look at the lifetime earning differential if the same person had attended an elite back in the day vs. a cheaper run-of-the-mill college*. There’s no way you can say that elite college tuition back then was fairly priced. It was very underpriced. Since then, the elite schools have figured out that they can charge more, and they not have reached the market price yet.
I actually read smewhere that the elite college earnings differential was actually greatest for those who went to college right after WWII.
“Is MIT offering fully online, accredited bachelor’s degrees?”
Nope, but Harvard is offering almost-completely-online accredited bachelor’s degrees (at a fraction of the price as their flagship Harvard College offering that kids kill themselves to attend).
Wow. I never really understood just how low income I was until this thread became a life of its own. Let me reiterate what I said back many pages ago…the state flagship in MA is $30K. The families I know make somewhere between $45K for single parents like myself (with a college degree) and anywhere between $100-$120K for married families. Sure, a few make upwards to $150K, that would be my guidance counselor best friend ($80K) and her husband that has worked for the highway department for 20 years ($70K). I can’t even have a discussion about college tuition with someone whose real estate taxes are more than my mortgage payments. Color me frustrated.
“I do have some sympathy for people on the coasts who’s cost of living is high, but it sounds like there are affordable options there, too. You just have to get over the idea that your child “deserves” to attend an elite school.”
Yep, and if your kid is really that awesome, they could always go to a CC or somewhere on a full-tuition/ride scholarship and then try to transfer for the last 2 years. That’s a well-worn path in CA to the UC’s. The Ivies/equivalents would be near impossible, but NYU/USC/UVa/UMich/Vandy/Emory and I think ND offer plausible odds, at least. Maybe some LACs or Cornell (especially from NYS) as well. And Columbia and WashU have 3-2 engineering programs for those so inclined. No, it’s not the 4-year “college experience”, but 2 years of exorbitant costs is cheaper than 4 years of exhorbitant costs and you still get the name degree.
@elguapo1: “I don’t begrudge anybody getting any aid and for whatever reason, but the system is broken when my options are State U or abroad because I have been fiscally prudent my entire life and think education is one of the most important gifts my wife an I can bequeath to our children.”
They could also try to land merit scholarships. They could also go the 2+2 route I suggested.
“I think its a crime that a kid can’t “work his way through school” anymore.”
A University of London International bachelor’s degree is dirt cheap. No, it’s not “the college experience”. In fact, it’s a distance degree with minimal support (they send you some material, give you a reading list, then you take tests once a year). But it is well-respected in many parts of the world because those exams are hard, so you have to be good to do well on them.
Also, a lot of elite unis have divisions for working adults (Harvard, UPenn, Northwestern, WashU, etc.) where tuition is much cheaper. No, it’s not “the college experience” and Harvard Extension School isn’t Harvard College, but working your way through college is still possible. And many in-state public alternatives are cheaper still.
@elguapo1: Somehow I get the idea that you and your D didn’t search that hard for attractive options in the US. Have you heard of the Flagship Arabic schools, for instance?
This shows how privileged some posters are that they believe it’s a crime that a kid can’t work his way through school anymore.
I know several kids who have worked their way through school in the last few years- because it was the ONLY way they were going to get an education.
1- live at home, commute to community college at night while working full time, transfer to a state directional for the last two years once there is both a cash cushion AND enough credits to be able to get out in two years. Move back home after graduating-- with a professional salary now- and pay back the loans on an accelerated timetable. Kid should be able to move out to an apartment within another year or two.
2- Air Force Academy. Nobody begrudges this kid the free tuition and room and board- is currently on the third deployment to the Middle East. Didn’t work during undergrad (couldn’t work, academy too rigorous) but sure is working it off now.
3- Four year residential college with all the bells and whistles, worked the full Work Study allotment, tutored on the side AND did army ROTC. Studied a strategic language during undergrad so will definitely be deployed to a dangerous place where they speak that language, but got a “prestigious” degree which the family would not have been able to afford without ROTC and Work Study.
4-Lived at home and commuted to the local non-flagship state college. Worked part time. Decided he wanted a major which this college didn’t offer, dropped out. Enrolled in an online degree program and is now working fulltime, won’t graduate for a while but is completely self-paying.
That is the whole point of this thread. The OP was commenting that UMC student don’t qualify for financial aid, pricing them out of these schools. Additionally, in the NE, many privates explicitly do not offer merit aid closing that avenue of cost reduction.
What do you define as “elite”? Dale and Kruger and other studies have shown that unless the student was a URM, there was no advantage to attending an “elite” private school.
Agreed. Many parents drink the cool-aid and agree to over-pay for a good with dubious merit. That is what is keeping tuition rising at twice the rate of inflation.
