Upper Middle Class Frustration

Paying for College
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The pressure to send children to “full pay” private and elite public universities is prevalent throughout affluent suburbia, but is particularly acute in CT, MA, and NY, where there are many affluent communities, and no tradition or emotional connection to the State University system. The SUNY system in NY did not really exist until the 1960s. The UMass system also developed in the post WWII era. The Land Grant school in NY is Cornell, which tells you everything you need to know about NY’s lack of a flagship State Univ.

In many of these UMC suburbs, parents spend tremendous amounts of time, effort, and money cultivating their children. In many ways, UMC parents in these states view the college sticker on the rear window of the car as the culmination of these parenting effort. The prestige of the college reflects the fruits of their parenting labor. This is sad, but it is also true. Objectively, an accounting degree from UMass will offer the same opportunities as an accounting degree from Boston College or Bucknell or Lehigh. However, for many of the UMC parents we are discussing (which include most of my neighbors), the thought of a UMass or SUNY Binghamton car sticker is more than they can bear, and would make their parenting efforts feel like a “waste”. The bottom line is many UC and UMC parents see “value” in paying full price for their children to attending schools in the top 30 of the USNWR rankings, so the demand fuels tuition prices untethered from inflation.

The “frustration” for some UMC families is that there is clearly some “value” in the four year college experience (leaving career options/starting salary out of the discussion). Spending four years on a beautiful campus, with pretty buildings and country club amenities enhances the collegiate experience. How much that enhancement is worth varies from family to family and is the real source of tension/peer pressure in affluent suburbia.

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OP signed out bc she was simply asking for understanding, not to learn.

As a NY suburban parent, can we stop stereotyping me now? “the culmination of my parenting effort”? “SUNT sticker is more than I can bear”? “Makes me very sad about those who have more than most”? Seriously, this is getting pretty offensive.

The OP has long gone. @skieurope might want to just close the thread. This horse has been beaten.

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(As others note, the biggest expansion in labor in colleges is in non-instructional staff.)

Of course, the biggest benefit for many employees is employer provided or subsidized medical insurance. The cost of medical care keeps on rising faster than inflation, regardless of policy attempts to slow such rise, which obviously feeds into the increasing cost of medical insurance. Obviously, that affects the cost of providing any labor intensive service, such as education, particularly in the idealized low student/instructor ratio situations and full amenities.

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My apologies, I’ve been reading along and I’ve tried googling what “UMC” means and I can’t seem to find the meaning. Can someone inform the newbie? Thank you.

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UMC presumably means “upper middle class”, however that is (flexibly) defined.

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Upper Middle Class

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Upper middle class.

@HRSMom my comment was not towards you. Not in the least.

Maybe this conversation has run its course. It’s an old argument around here.

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@sushiritto Upper Middle Class

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Doh! 8-| What an idiot I am.

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We on CC are a proactive bunch.

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There may be bloat in the administration at some colleges but the numbers are not as clearcut as they seem. Colleges have to comply with SO many more regulations now than when we were in college.

https://www.rit.edu/fa/grms/fed-laws-by-alphabet

Here are a few sample regulations that didn’t exist when the parents here were in school:

Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act of 1994:
“Each coed institution of higher education that participates in Title IV programs, and has an intercollegiate athletic program, must no later than Oct. 15th of each year, make available on request to enrolled students, prospective students, and the public, the report required to be produced under this law. Within 15 days of making the report available to students, prospective students, and the public (so at the latest Oct. 30th of each year) the school must submit the report to the Secretary of Education.”

Campus Security Act of 1990:
“The Campus Security Act requires colleges to report campus crime statistics and security measures to all students and employees by October 1 of each year. The annual security report must also be submitted to the Secretary of Education (over the internet) by Oct. 15th of each year.”

Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act Amendments of 1989:
“Annual distribution to students and employees the institution’s standards of conduct with respect to illegal drugs and alcohol, a description of the applicable legal sanctions and health risks; as well as availability of drug and alcohol counseling available to employees and students. Must also include a statement on sanctions the institution will impose for violation of the standards of conduct. The law does not mandate a particular date for distribution, but suggested distribution is to make this information part of the Annual Security Report distribution of which is required by October 1st of each year.”

Hazardous Materials Transportation Act of 1994
“Each person who transports or causes to be transported hazardous material shall file annually a complete and accurate registration statement on DOT Form F 5800.2 not later than June 30 for each registration year. Each registration year begins on July 1 and ends on June 20.”

Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act (EPCRA) 1986
“By March 1st of each year, the owner or operator of any facility which is required to prepare or have available a material safety data sheet for a hazardous chemical under OSHA shall prepare and submit an emergency and hazardous chemical inventory format the appropriate local emergency planning committee; the state emergency response commission; and the fire department with jurisdiction over the facility.”

ADA, antiterrorism, antidiscrimination, mental health counseling, LD support, employee rights, health insurance regulations, FMLA, animal welfare, greater red tape for international students, and on and on…

And that’s not even considering staff for the optional stuff every family wants these days like career services, health/exercise facilities, graduate school guidance, IT support, allergy/alternative diets, writing centers…

(Adding-Sorry PurpleTitan, I didn’t see your post before sending mine. I didn’t mean to Bogart your point!)

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No need to call for closure of a thread just because you don’t agree with everything that is being discussed.

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Threads are routinely closed when the OP exits. The unpleasant tone here is just an added reason.

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BTW, kids also want to get away and kids want to be different.

I get that.

Ursinus has an automatic scholarship for those with a 28 ACT or 1260 SAT that brings total costs down to $35K or less: https://www.ursinus.edu/offices/scholarships-and-financial-aid/grants-scholarships-loans/ursinus-gateway-scholarship/

Aaaaand, you don’t even have to leave the Northeast to attend Ursinus.
Aaaaand, they’re not some giant uni.
Aaaaand, you probably won’t see many of your HS classmates there.

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Funny, I’m an UMC, full paying private school tuition parent and from the northeast and I’m not finding the tone unpleasant even though it is talking about my SES and world. :slight_smile:

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And that is why I was only reading this thread. Bringing costs down and $35,000 or less in the same sentence as an affordable option…um, yeah, not in my world.

Carry on!

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Great. Enjoy it. Didn’t I say a while back I was exiting bc these turn into class bashing? I should listen to myself.

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@Mom2aphysicsgeek: Well, the OP and folks like him (in the UMC) were venting about the high price and competition for the elite privates and seemed to view their in-state options with disdain, so this would be an option for them.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, they still have plenty of options (which some seem unaware of) which wouldn’t be open to those making 5 figures.

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The original premise that state flagships in NE are not good enough for the majority of students was wrong IMHO. That attitude just helps accelerate the slide into financial trouble.

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Hello, everyone.

I thought I would check back in. Wow - this is certainly an active thread.

@HRSMom I agree that the stereotyping is a bit over the top. Some of what was said is accurate for some folks up here, some is not.

@zinhead really hits the nail on the head: “With college debt totaling $1.4+ trillion dollars, it is a massive wealth transfer going from upper and middle class families to these “not-for-profit” institutions.”

Somebody early on mentioned that colleges aren’t really colleges anymore. They are sophisticated hedge funds. You should really think about that. There is merit to that view.

Anyway, I hate to blow up the thread again, but I am going to make a statement that will upset some of you.

First, understand that I am one of those people who has indeed saved all of her life. I am extremely responsible in that way.

I am one of those people who does not live an ostentatious life. I have gone years at a time with no vacations other than the occasional camping trip. I have never been to Europe. I don’t wear expensive clothes. My cars are modest. I never charge more to my credit card than can be paid off at month’s end. I have no debt other than a modest mortgage. We only eat out one night per week. I even cut my own hair!

Oh, and, my children are not B students. I saw some of you speculating about that. They are very high stats, high achieving kids with strong leadership skills. The fact that so many of you so casually say that my kids should be happy to go to far away schools where the average test scores and GPA’s are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than theirs ( while at the same time arguing that this would be a terrible injustice for low income and middle income kids) is disheartening, to say the least.

So . . . here it comes. Ready?

If my children were to be admitted to a Middlebury, or Connecticut College or Vassar or Lehigh or Holy Cross or Boston College or Bates or Colby or Amherst or Skidmore etc etc etc etc (really there are very few schools here that give merit ), then guess what? I have the money to pay full price. Heck, I could pay for Harvard, or Yale or Princeton.

The problem is, the price is so ridiculously exorbitant that I would have to completely drain myself of the assets it has taken a lifetime of discipline to accumulate in order to send my children to these schools. The price is completely divorced from the value of the product. I would have to be the completely irrational consumer that many of you assume me to be to even consider paying $280,000 for an undergraduate degree.

The very things that make me a financially conservative, wise consumer who manages her assets well, also make it impossible for me to rationalize transferring all of my hard earned money to these schools for an undergraduate education that is simply not worth the sticker price.

What I am saying is that these institutions have knowingly set their prices in a way that excludes my income group. Yes, there are people who are status conscious or who have made promises to their children that they feel they must keep, and those people will substantially deplete their finances and transfer their wealth to Middlebury or Franklin and Marshall or whatever school claims to be worth that sacrifice. They exist. But more and more people like me simply cannot justify the enormous and arbitrary cost. Why even bother to apply?

The schools have deliberately sent pricing signals to the market that discourage Upper Middle Class families from attending. The message is that we are not welcome at a huge number of schools in our region unless we are willing to be completely irresponsible with our assets.

So, bring it on. I have been reading this site for years so I know what the responses are likely to be. That’s fine. I continue to believe that pricing reform is needed. The current system of pretend need based “grants” and merit based “scholarships” is dishonest and unsustainable, but I don’t think anything will change in time for my kids.

In the meantime, I mourn the loss of the days when colleges really were temples of learning, and lower prices meant that many, many more families could attend without aid. My family now looks at college as just another four years of workplace preparation, and I will choose instead to transfer my assets to my kids.