@Zinhead “Great post but, to be fair, people in the South do measure others by which school one is an alumni of. However, that judgement is generally based on the quality of the school’s football/basketball team, not something as distasteful as academics.”
You are absolutely correct, and it brings back memories from those years we lived in the South. People were very passionate about it, thanks for making me laugh! That, BTW, was another one of those things I never understood.
OP: “Oh, and, my children are not B students. I saw some of you speculating about that. They are very high stats, high achieving kids with strong leadership skills.”
Yes, speculation based upon limited or no information is a classic CC pastime.
Anyway, I’m enjoying the read. Carry on.
@Quietlylurking We are the same super frugal people who could afford the posh options if we drained 3/4 of our assets. But we’re evil parents who don’t buy cell phones for our kids until high school and will not drain our assets for name schools. They attend state school for undergrad without any debt for any of us. They can move up the food chain for grad school like we did and it’s your last school that counts anyway. What is your state school that isn’t up to par and for what major. Have you actually really, really looked at the flagship. Only in New England do we look down on the school in our backyard. Maybe you have given it an honest look but this is really a terrible attitude that we have here in New England with regards to our flagships. We have friends who sold their summer home so their daughter could go to Brown and then she became a stay home mom which is great but at some point a cost benefit analysis is practical.
If you technically have the money to be full pay (which most don’t) how exactly has your income group been excluded by college pricing? Yes, I understand it will hurt but for many its not even remotely possible short of substantial debt.
And wow, way to slam the colleges that many of us even less able to pay sticker price are sending our kids to.
@Quietlylurking glad to see you chime back in.
I don’t blame you, why spend a lifetime of saving when there are so many schools out there where your child can go. For less and get a great education.
There are only a tiny percentage of schools that cost so much, only offer need based aid and you would have a full pay student. I don’t agree with your premise that these schools are sending signals discouraging UMC from attending.
I had a kid at one of those schools. There were plenty of students who’s parents were not either fabulously wealthy or terribly poor. Lots of kids from ordinary UMC families. I know, my kid was friends with them, roommates with them. Lots of kids who’s parents were two income families living in the NE. Who did not get aid but paid the full sticker price. That was their choice. It’s not yours. And that’s ok.
(emphasis added)
As I wrote about at great length many pages ago, the issue that the OP is having is with college options in the northeast. And as others have commented, the way in which many folks in the NE regard colleges is different than in many other places in the country.
I know nothing about the OP’s kids–what they want from a college, the kind of majors they’re interested in, etc etc etc. I don’t know where they’d be able to get enough merit aid to bring COA down by a third, or half…but I have a very difficult time believing that there isn’t somewhere in the country that would give them a quality education (and experience, for that matter) at a price that is more in line with the OP’s parameters. Of course, I could be entirely wrong: a kid might need to be near home, or might be interested in a specific unusual subject, or might already have taken the first two years of calculus with an interest in an eventual PhD.
If the OP just wanted to vent, there’s already a thread for that: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/319650-say-it-here-cause-you-cant-say-it-directly-the-get-it-off-your-chest-thread.html#latest
It’s not hard to understand. In cities or in some cases states without a NBA or NFL team, the college teams become the major sports teams everyone roots for, whether you went there or not.
@Quietlylurking:
What you write about high prices is fair though:
I outlined multiple paths a high-achieving kid could take and still get a brand-name degree (2+2, merit+masters, abroad). How many of those have you actually explored?
And other than maybe bragging rights among your friends, what massive benefit do ConnColl and Skidmore have that Ursinus doesn’t?
At some point, it does come across as whining for the sake of whining without much interest in seeking a good solution.
OP- you have constructed your own echo chamber.
“In the meantime, I mourn the loss of the days when colleges really were temples of learning.”
If you were seriously concerned about academic rigor and intellectualism, half the schools on the list that you mourn for would be off the table. Not because they are unaffordable, but because there are better, cheaper options. Much better and much cheaper.
This latest post and your great “reveal” that you have the dough does nothing more than reinforce the original premise- you cannot easily afford (you can afford it- just that you’d feel the bite of all that dough going out the door just like the rest of us) to send your kids to a prestigious college and are unwilling to open your mind to the fact that there are kids just as hardworking, high scoring, and intelligent at a wide variety of colleges- some of which- gasp-- you’ve never heard of.
Smartest man I ever worked for went to Earlham. Smartest woman I ever worked for went to Beloit. I grew up in the Northeast so I had to look those colleges up (this was before Google). And then I met all these talented people from UT and UIUC and U Missouri Rolla (before it was renamed) and realized that there are smart kids everywhere. And then I had a boss whose favorite undergrad engineering program WAS U Missouri at Rolla, and I learned how fantastic the program is (and how rigorous). But trust me- mention Missouri to a neighbor complaining about how much they are paying for engineering at Lehigh or Bucknell or Northeastern (at least there’s coop to cut the costs) and they think you are deranged.
But if you raise your kids to believe that Colgate has an intellectual climate which Macauley Honors cannot achieve, or that Colby is somehow superior to Rutgers, then you’ve got your answer. Liquidate your savings OR make your kids miserable by reminding them that the college they attend is nowhere near as impressive as where they could have gone.
Odd that your anger comes out of a two income family paying AMT AND amassing enough in savings not just to be considered full pay but to actually BE ABLE to full pay. No loans at all- not even the federal loans for your kids? Wow. And you don’t hear how insane this sounds?
Paraphrased “My children are high stats students, high achieving students with strong leadership skills.” The problem is is that there are oodles and oodles of kids in NE with the same profiles. Our friends were both Bowdoin alumni, sent their daughter to a very expensive top high school. High stats, volunteer work in Africa, medical research etc… And that student could not get into Bowdoin. They just didn’t want another high achieving white girl from New England. It is a global market.
@SlitheyTove People don’t like leaving NE as a stereotype with some truth to it. We came over on the Mayflower and have barely moved. NE kids don’t leave in great numbers but many people try for spots at NE colleges. Adds to the problem.
@gearmom Shhhhhhh.
Yes, the local publics are indeed improving rapidly, mainly because it is the only logical place for the UMC kids to go to escape the abusive prices and the arbitrary “holistic” admission standards. I discussed that in my first posts, but people here only see what they wish to see, and a practical “rich” person does not fit the preferred narrative.
People on this forum tend to forget that colleges consist of three things, faculty, physical plant and STUDENT BODY. Eventually, the flagships will equal or rival the most “tippy top” colleges that folks revere around here.
Of course, that means that the selectivity of the flagships is rapidly increasing. I have some time to go before kid number 1 applies and I am monitoring the Common Data Sets closely. Capacity at these places is not unlimited. I make sure they maintain very high stats because I assume nothing about future admission standards.
BTW, most people around here assume the prices of the flagships are increasing due to cuts in state aid. I suggest to you, the prices are increasing because the UMC’s looking for alternatives are able and willing to pay the increasing prices, and the prices are being set accordingly. Meanwhile, the students that used to attend the flagships are being pushed down the chain to the regionals and the CC’s.
I’m not sure why folks around here find it so difficult to accept what I have been saying, but I really do mourn the loss of the northeast private colleges of 35 years ago. They were no frills and low cost enough to allow for the exploration of the body of human knowledge, just for the heck of it. Nobody expected nice dorms or luxurious facilities or elaborate entertainment because the costs were affordable. I remember reading course catalogs when I was a kid and imagining learning all sorts of things. It was like a feast at my finger tips.
The current obsession with STEM and Business grows out of the anxiety caused by the inflated costs, which must be justified by employment preparation.
The whole thing is just sad.
OP, you are asking for sympathy when, to be blunt, none is deserved.
If you want to lament on how there are few affordable options in the NE, and ignore the fact that there are THOUSANDS of more affordable colleges outside the region, that is akin to someone, in perfect health, complaining that they have to walk 3 more blocks than they REALLY want to.
:(( 8-|
You are in the financial position to ensure that your children CAN go to college. ANYWHERE.
Millions of US parents cant do that.
Many of the parents here on CC learned that often, in order to be able to afford BOTH paying for their children’s education AND their retirement, their children have to go to colleges further away from home than they would in an ideal world.
You and your children have that option.
so quite whining , start to embrace what posters on this thread have stated, learn from them, and count your blessings that there are people here willing to take the time to slap some sense into you…
:-w
Wow. I am happy we live in VA with great in-state choices with in-state tuition:).
Ahem–the quality of the student body at some flagships ALREADY equals or rivals the tippy tops, at least in some departments.
Friend of mine, Radcliffe grad, head of a STEM department at a highly respected flagship. Routinely says that the caliber of the students in her department surpasses what she sees at the tippys. Yes, an anecdote, but a telling one.
I regard this as good news. There are so many high-caliber students now that they can’t all fit within a small list of schools in the northeast. That means there are many places for high-caliber students to attend college, and hang with their tribe.
I can’t speak for schools in the NE, but that is absolutely false with respect to California’s higher education options. State contributions have plummeted since the early 1980’s, after the passage of Proposition 13, which restricted the growth of property taxes.
“I remember reading course catalogs when I was a kid and imagining learning all sorts of things. It was like a feast at my finger tips.”
The course catalogs still do. That hasn’t changed. 
If you had started this thread as someone looking to find advice and solutions for finding cheaper “temples of learning” than the full pay private college bills of $65-70K, I’m sure folks could offer plenty of ideas, some already have. As a quiet lurker here for years, perhaps you’ve seen these suggestions before but in case you haven’t I’ll present a few.
If you want the smaller private school experience like the schools you mention in your list:
If you have daughters, I’d suggest looking at some of the women’s colleges that offer merit aid. Incredible education, beautiful campuses (some of the nicest in the country), your child could stay in the NE, name recognition among those who care about such things. Schools like Bryn Mawr give up to a full year’s worth of credit for AP/IB which could cut a year off your expenses. Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Smith are all part of consortiums with other great colleges like Amherst, Haverford, Swarthmore, Penn.
Or consider Dickinson and St. Lawrence which are ranked in the same range as Skidmore and Conn College, both of which you mentioned, still in the NE, and offer merit scholarships.
There are plenty of strategies worth considering. Those are just a few.
For a reference point, Middlebury was $21200 in 1991, http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-04-07/business/1991097064_1_college-in-middlebury-private-colleges-tuition-increases. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $37800. Even 26 years ago, Middlebury wasn’t exactly affordable to the middle class without loans, dedicated savings over many years, or significant scholarships.
@Quietlylurking Let’s continue with the UMass assumption. Regarding, STUDENT body, I think you’re in for a real eye opener. Let’s say that your kid does make it into the UMass Honors program. Your kid is probably going to be surrounded by students that are smarter than her. She’ll be challenged and reaching to maintain a high GPA. These flagship schools DO have tippy top kids. This is not the old ZooMass days. If you kid was too smart for UMass, she’d have merit scholarships to elite choices and this wouldn’t be an issue. Additionally, if she plans to work in Mass, going to UMass is a great networking tool. So many people have gone there and it’s human nature to help people from your alma mater.
@doschicos I don’t think that the frustration here is rooted in the quest for learning or knowledge as much as evaluation of university education as another consumer good (hence the numerous analogies to automobiles)
Ultimately you will have to make your peace with wherever you decide to send your kids and however you decide to finance those choices.
Unlike many posters on this thread, though, I empathize with you. Also a UMC family here that, despite being fiscally frugal, will be unable to spend what it would take to send our kids to the schools we think are best for them. People value different schools for different reasons. It’s not always about the prestige, as many here have assumed. So I don’t agree with other posters who think that your preference for certain schools betrays a sense of entitlement. And if what you are able to afford does not match your vision for your child, it is understandable that you would grieve the inability to give your student what you think is best for him or her and be frustrated or angry at the circumstances. I am very disappointed about the unsympathetic and sometimes derisive tone some others have taken toward you (and other UMC families), and think that is in many cases unfair and uncalled for. I wish people could make their points in a more civil, less name-calling, and less holier-than-thou way.
Best wishes.
Cars are cheaper in real terms (they last longer, are more reliable). So is food, and clothing, and electronics.
Housing and college, OTOH, much more expensive. And health care too. Oh, and retirement, because most folks don’t have a pension.
Yet another reason that the car analogy for college costs is bad.