URGENT Does UM's BM in Piano + Teacher Certification allow you to teach Band in HS?

College Majors Music Major
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<p><a href="http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/p%C2%85%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/p…&lt;/a>
It says it's for people interested in learning piano performance as well as being able to educate in elementary and secondary schools.</p>

<p>It says that you need Music Education hours but it does not say you need credits learning secondary instruments like the BM in Music Education curriculum says.</p>

<p>If I get this degree and certification, am I only allowed to teach "general music"? What is that?
Is there a way I can qualify to teach band at schools through the MTNA or something? [url=<a href="http://www.mtnacertification.org/Certifi%C2%85%5D404%5B/url"&gt;http://www.mtnacertification.org/Certifi…]404[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>Also, does anyone know how it would work if I do this and dual degree with BBA in Ross Business school? It says you can do that, and provides an example of 5 years which is fine to me. To get a BBA it says you only need 45 core credits, and then a bunch of LSA credits. Apparently all these LSA and other credits can be filled with the BM curriculum as long as they approve me for dual-degree. If this is true, then I can dual-degree in 5 years without a super heavy load. I can do some credits (8-10?) in the summer and will only have to take about 18 total credits per semester to do the dual-degree. However if I don't dual-degree, and I do some classes in the summer, it will only take 15 credits per semester for BM. 3 credit hours a semester doesn't seem too huge, but time is time. But considering I can have dual-degree, that is quite useful.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for help I really really really appreciate it!</p>

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<p>I have no idea of the answer to your certification question, but I did want to mention that regardless of the certification situation, you would obviously still need to be very familiar with all of the band instruments, plus drill design, and just generally all of the stuff that comes with teaching band (instrument repair, supervising color guard, conducting, etc). </p>

<p>If I was a high school principal, I wouldn’t hire you for a band teacher position without a Music Ed degree with specialization in wind and percussion instruments, even if you had a music degree and were certified to teach band. All the certification stuff is important, but making sure that you have the skills to do the job you want, and that you are hirable for that position, is even more important.</p>

<p>Every once in a while the school district that I live in decides to hire someone who is truly qualified to teach band, but they hire them to teach string orchestra. That’s just plain dumb on the part of the school system, and the people that they hire never last long. One lady taught my son orchestra for 2 years, she didn’t have a clue as to what she was doing, and honestly, it was a huge disservice to the students. My son ended up dropping violin because of it - the only thing he was learning was to hate string orchestra. The lady was finally let go the same year my son dropped out of orchestra. Last year they hired another band director for string orchestra, she left at the end of the year, and then this year the dummies did the same thing again. They don’t seem to understand that someone who was trained to be a band director doesn’t make the best orchestra teacher.</p>

<p>Now it may be possible that some grade schools teach piano, and your plans may be perfect for that, but I don’t think that very many public schools teach piano. You would probably have to teach at a private school - which may mean not as much pay, and benefits may be sub-par compared to what public school teachers get.</p>

<p>The additional BBA would mean nothing to me if I were looking to hire a public school band director, but a BM and BBA combo would be great if I was looking for a manager for a music store or any other music business.</p>

<p>And, last, but not least, the BBA may have value in teaching, particularly at the high school level, if combined with a teachers certificate.</p>

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<p>Interesting, when my son was applying last fall for Jazz Studies, UM offered the same option of getting teacher certification, which would qualify one to teach in public schools. They made it sound more like not a band director thing but that you would be able to teach jazz, which in these tight funding times, does not seem like it would be the main way that one would get income, but supplemental income as a jazz coach in a HS or MS setting would be feasible.</p>

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<p>Thank you. Both of your responses are very insightful.</p>

<p>imagep, I have not looked at it like that at all. I see what you mean. So the Teacher Certificate allows me to teach, but it’s not a good choice if I actually want to be a good candidate.</p>

<p>In that case, I should be able to double major BM in Performance and Instrumental Education, without taking TOO many extra classes right? Probably not much more than the Performance + Teacher Certificate course, which already has a good amount of Education + Student Teaching Credits. Though if i were to double major in that AND get a BBA, I may need to work super super hard or spend 6 years instead of 5. Though I guess it also depends how many AP credits I can earn :)</p>

<p>Thank you both once again!</p>

<p>Thank you both!</p>

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<p>Just my 2 cents: Several of son’s high school teachers discussed what happens in the “real” world of music teaching in our area of the country. Usually, new hires teach their specialty areas ie strings, band, vocal or general music. However, smaller districts might ask you to multi-task and teach outside your concentration since the NY certification is for music not a music specialization. Also, in our school district, a chorus teacher is teaching elementary strings do to budget cuts and teacher tenure. An elementary string teacher was let go because he was the newest hire in the department. Another general music teacher told son that her first job out of music school was to teach band and orchestra not a good fit. As imagep recommended, try to learn as many instruments as possible while in school because you don’t know what the market place has in store for you.</p>

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<p>Yoshi, consider carefully what you want out of a perf degree, a teaching cert and a Ross business degree all together. I fear your focus would be split beyond usability :wink: Why not consider pursuing ONE of those disciplines at a masters level?</p>

<p>Ross is an extremely challenging program; and the SOM perf route at UMich is no cakewalk either. My son started out as a dual degree student at UMich between the music school and LSA. LSA has so many distribution requirements, etc., and his particular schedule at the music school is so demanding (its highly sequenced because its actually a BFA), and the courses so frequently CONFLICT in terms of scheduling, he instead pulled his focus in on his initial discipline and is very content (and challenged) just with that. Several of his friends have also by now dropped attempts to pair Engineering with perf at the SOM, because again, the combination of group work required for ENG (almost all classes are group project based and rigorous) with the ensemble work at the music school caused a crazy workload and scheduling conflicts galore. Now, with piano, you might be in better shape, because you won’t be spending 6-10 hours in ensemble rehearsal each week in addition to private practice and all the theory/history coursework…but you WILL be practicing at a very committed level.</p>

<p>The odd, rare, highly committed kid will do it, and maybe you’re it, but my question is why. Like all things that grow, ya need a little light and air to absorb your environment at college and actually DEVELOP ;)</p>

<p>But seriously, don’t take my word for it. Discuss your plan with Dee Dee Unlitz, the registrar for the SOM. She will, I suspect, give you a very clear picture of what it would take.</p>

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<p>PS You’ve already applied, right? Or are you rushing now because you’re applying TODAY, which is the SOM application deadline?</p>

<p>If you haven’t applied to LSA/Ross yet (you realize this is a separate application…that LSA, ROSS and SOM are all individual schools at UMich???) you need to know that you should get to it because EA deadline is already passed (Nov. 1) and chances begin to diminish due to sheer volume in terms of LSA and Ross. Forgive me if I am telling you something you already know.
Best wishes.</p>

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<p>That said it all.</p>

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<p>What kmcmom is talking about sounds familiar to me. My older son was at UM as an engineering major and participated in UMETE (euphonium & tuba ensemble) because he wanted to continue playing tuba. He came into contact with tuba performance majors who were going for a dual degree but he did mention that one who was in computer engineering had to drop it because it was too demanding on his time. Older son did suggest that younger son consider double majoring in music and an LSA discipline…I’m thinking he is looking more ahead to the job market for younger son than we are!</p>

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<p>Jtm, I think applying for dual degree at umich is a nice option because the admit rates to either program are increasingly low, and if you’re accepted to both, then the world is your oyster, so to speak. But I also think as time progresses, the same student will find themselves craving the focus and depth of one degree or the other, and at that point are in a better position to evaluate whether to proceed dual or not. My son did not make the decision until the beginning of this year, after discovering that the level to which he was already working/specialized in film exceeded the courses required to actually achieve the second degree in film, but in his case it’s slightly unusual because kids in his section of music tech take upper level film production classes as part of their sound/scoring work, and normally those classes aren’t available to regular students without doing the entire degree sequence. (which makes sense, as his discipline is a portfolio submission that included film work with his music, so generally his peers in the program are already highly advanced.) If the second degree is unrelated (eg he would have really enjoyed an English
degree and does take writing electives wherever possible) then the five years generally required would make a lot of sense. In his case, he thinks it makes more sense to pursue writing and film via workshops or a masters program. Every case is different,</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree kmcmom, every case is different. My musician son, though he did all right in his non-music coures in high school, never had anything comparable to the interest he has in music, so any dual degree program was not under consideration. It seems though to make it as a musician one does need to know a lot these days about things other than music, i.e., marketing oneself, music technology in this digital age, networking, and teaching methods (if giving lessons at some point). Hopefully, he’ll pick hese things up from experience!</p>

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<p>I’m sure he will, much of it inside the bm and environment! Eg. The music business course offered at the som requires the students to register themselves as a business and create a website, etc., so it’s not as if choosing performance means being locked in a practice room. Nothing replaces the actual time spent on the craft itself, and it sometimes seems that some of the students seeking dual degrees are hedging bets or trying to appease a parent who doesn’t actually want them to major in music. I think a student who’s prepared to immerse/commit themselves 100 percent stand the best chance at a fulfilling musical career, viscitudes of life notwithstanding ;)</p>

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<p>Once again, THANK YOU ALL for the help.</p>

<p>The reason why I wanted a dual degree with piano performance + teaching certificate and Business is because I felt it would give me a very well rounded education. I can perform, I can teach, I can do business (like open my own studio or market myself, or just to help me make smarter choices, etc.)</p>

<p>However now I think I’ve decided to be a Music Education major, because I’ve realized t hat most of the classes are the same as if you were to take Performance, the biggest difference is just that you need to take classes for other instruments and do some student teaching, other than that, there might be a few classes that are different. Also (this does not apply to all colleges though) if I’m a Music Education major, that means I can get piano lessons from the professors still, which is really the reason WHY a school is “good” at music, right? It’s for the professional teachers, not the books, and a competitive environment helps a little but probably not nearly as much as having good professors.</p>

<p>I also think it’s easier to get in as a Music Education teacher, but I guess it depends what college, since I think more people probably want to do Performance?</p>

<p>Another reason for Music Education (Instrumental, btw) is because I have a “backup” plan. Since I’m not a performance major I’ll be more behind obviously if I want to perform, but that doesn’t mean I can’t become a band teacher and still practice several hours a day, especially since teaching (at least to me) isn’t a stressful job. It’s not something you would come back home from all tired and just want to sit on front of the TV or something. And there’s so many vacation days and etc., that I could do other jobs (private teaching, small performances) for some extra money if I want. Teachers don’t get paid nearly as much as the $100,000 or even $200,000 goal most people want to achieve, but you only work 180 out of 360 days and you get health benefits, etc., and I get to work with what I love and have a career in something that I care about.</p>

<p>If I can make the audition and get a Music Education major spot, I would be so happy. I might take a business minor but I only wanted to take Business because I was thinking of using it as a backup, and also because I thought such a dual degree wouldn’t be as bad as others like music + engineering, since music + business is specifically listed as a dual-degree that they “allow”. I checked the BPA degree and you only need 45 business credits, all the rest LSA, which basically can be substituted with the music major classes.</p>

<p>@kmcmom13</p>

<p>Also, yes I have applied for LSA already, and (after some complications but it’s all good now) I was able to get in a separate SoM application by the December 1 date. That is why I said urgent, I wanted to know this so I could decide what I wanted to do with my life. That day and the day before were probably two of my most important days; picking a career. Otherwise I would have missed all the Music deadlines at all colleges and been stuck with business or LSA for at least 1 year.</p>

<p>However, I thank your consideration :slight_smile: If I had not known (and there is much many don’t know about college…) then it would have been quite horrible! I didn’t learn about colleges having separate schools and all that until this senior year, so I started panicking from the information overload xD</p>

<p>Once again thank you all, it is so appreciated ^_^</p>

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<p>Yoshi, you probably made the right decision and you sound like you are headed in the right direction. Don’t worry too much, if you find things not working out, you can always change majors.</p>

<p>The business minor sounds like a good idea. The Music Ed degree will probably take up all of your time during the normal 8 semesters, so you may want to seriously consider taking some classes during the summer. Most community colleges offer fully transferable classes in your general education classes plus a lot of business class. If you took a few summer school class this summer and the summer after your freshman year you could easily do the business minor without stressing yourself.</p>

<p>Also, as long as you make good grades, if you decide that you want to pursue a business career, you could most likely enroll in a MBA program after you get your Music Ed degree. The business minor will help you from being so far behind in business, and the extra year or year and a half that it would likely have taken to get an undergraduate degree would better be spent in grad school anyway.</p>

<p>A bachelors plus a masters can be worth way more than two bachelors degrees.</p>