Urgent! ROTC Out of State Tuition!! Do they still waive it?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
1

<p>Hello </p>

<p>I am late applying to NROTC and I need to find a couple of things out, quickly. I read somewhere that UIUC waives OOS tuition for people doing ROTC. While if I go to UIUC I will have full tuition anyway, but this is important for the application and selecting a school that will grant you in-state rates. </p>

<p>You select 5 schools that you would like to use your scholarship at, and one of the top three must be an in-state public or somewhere that you can get in-state tuition at. If UIUC lets OOS ROTC kids pay the IS rates, I can list UI in my top 3, because I would technically get in-state rates there. </p>

<p>I can’t really find any information on it and I am not sure if they even do this anymore for out of state kids, especially with the IL budget cuts. </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>edit: most of the info I'm findig makes it sound like it is only for IS and they just waive tuition completely.</p>

2

<p>I tried out the Army ROTC program as a freshman and sophomore. I had out of state tuition at the time, and they will not waive the out of state tuition, nor will they lower the rate to instate tuition.</p>

<p>It is an unfair tiered system. The in state students can basically try out ROTC for two years, pay no in state tuition, then quit. If you come in out of state, at least for the Army, you have two options. One, apply for the federal scholarship. Two, enlist in the National Guard and be a simultaneous membership cadet. You’re basically pulling double duty, and the only benefit is you don’t get deployed. Many people put two and two together, and just quit ROTC because the guard pays for tuition anyway and they’ll probably just get one deployment , if they’re unlucky two.</p>

<p>I will soon graduate from engineering college and I quit the whole Army thing after completing basic training. The time demands that ROTC places on cadets means that ROTC is full of liberal artsy people; at least Navy and Air Force have a few more engineers. Good luck if you’re in engineering and NROTC, it’s going to be a heck of a ride. If you’re not in engineering, you should be fine.</p>

3

<p>First to the OP, have you actually contacted (email of phone) the NROTC recruiting officer at UIUC to ask your questions. S/he will have the correct answers as to the specifics both of the scholarship and UIUC’s tuition benefits. Do not pay attention to NAFTA’s repsonse as each service has different funding arrangements.</p>

<p>NAFTA,</p>

<p>Sorry to hear that you had a negative experience with AROTC. I’m not going to go into how you have actually misrepresented SMP’s requirements and difference with guard only (no ROTC) (SMP guarantees you an officer commission upon completion whereas regular guard service with tuition reimbursement does not guarantee an officer commission upon degree completion). Big difference in outcome.</p>

<p>And I guess if you spent 168 hours a week eating, sleeping, going to class and studying, ROTC would not fit into your schedule. You make it sound like STEM majors and ROTC are mutually exclusive yet turn around and mention the AF and Navy having more engineers (BTW their ROTC requirements are effectively the same).</p>

<p>Yeah, there are more liberal arts types in AROTC, primarily because AF and Navy award a high percentage of their national scholarships to STEM types. Army does not descriminate on a candidates major. </p>

<p>All in all, your experience as you describe (dropping out after basic - which tells me you aren’t committed to the military) and complaints about the money says that you were in it looking for money rather than as a way to serve. And your result is typical for those who look at ROTC primarily as a way to pay for college. </p>

<p>The time demands of ROTC are not different from having a typical campus job. Lots of engineering majors actually balance that much. Let’s not make it sound like it is the all consuming endeavor (although you can put a lot more into it if so motivated). </p>

<p>While my daughter is not the STEM type like you, she does participate in ROTC and is a varsity athlete. She has to be well-organized to keep on top of things, but she, like many others find a way to make it work.</p>

<p>Bottom line - join ROTC if you wish to serve your country as an officer. If you apply during your senior year in HS to a service where your application is competitive (total package of scholar/athlete/leader), you stand an excellent chance of getting your tuition and books paid for as well as a stipend while you prepare for your future. </p>

<p>Conventional ROTC is designed to fill the needs of the regular armed forces (although some reservists end up coming out of this pipeline) whereas SMP is designed to fill the need for National Guard officers for those who want to serve Uncle Sam in that manner.</p>

<p>The fact that not everyone gets a scholarship means that the armed forces seems to have plenty of ready, willing, and able candidates. This is a good thing. It keeps things competitive and keeps out the ones in it purely for the money.</p>

<p>[Rant off]</p>

4

<p>I agree with goaliedad, call the NROTC department at UIUC and ask them specific questions about funding. I am sure they will be happy to answer them. Furthermore, since you are joining the Navy, then my discussion on Army ROTC does not apply to you. </p>

<p>However, I am fairly certain that at UIUC all students with in state tuition can get scholarships for freshman and sophomore year to any ROTC department, whether Navy, Air Force, Army or Marine Corps with no obligations at all. Not all get these scholarships, but most do. Out of state students do not even get a reduction in tuition, and of course, they get no waivers either. You be the judge of how fair that is.</p>

5

<p>That being said, the Army experience had all sorts of positive effects on me. One such effect was not to care what other people think about me, and the other was to never back down.</p>

<p>First, when I started Army ROTC there were 3-4 freshman engineers. None made it to the end. ROTC ate up 10 hours a week freshman year when I had no leadership roles; that is without the FTX, flag raising, button polishing, shoe shining, memorization, etc… 10 hours is not bad dad, but it depends where you put those marvelous hours and what you do with them.</p>

<p>When you have to get up at 5:45 AM three days a week as an engineering student that is a serious problem. Unlike basic, where you go to sleep at 9:00 PM, or a real Army grunt where they may keep you up doing stuff, as an engineer you use your brain constantly and you have severe time crunches. The last thing you need is a 5:45 AM wakeup when you have an exam at 9:00 AM and you just studied until 1:00 AM the night before. They make exceptions, but as a future officer, you feel lousy once you use exception after exception.</p>

<p>Second, I did not misrepresent SMP, I simply left out the details because this kid is joining the Navy. I know full well that you come out a 2nd LT when you finish SMP and college, and free to do whatever you want with your life when you finish your 6 year national guard enlisted contract. The trouble is that the ROTC program is patently unfair because out of state students are forced to jump through twice the hoops as in state, and many just give up. As an engineer, not your average Joe Schmo townie in the guard, you cannot afford to spend 10 hours a week in ROTC and a weekend a month God knows where in Illinois polishing M-16s and marching around. One weekend a month will cripple you in engineering college.</p>

<p>Third, I did not join just for the money. The money was important, but I wanted to be an officer and a leader first and foremost. However, being an engineer is more important to me than being an officer, and as the two conflicted, I got out.</p>

<p>Fourth, the reason Navy and Air Force have more engineers is because they are less demanding, especially Air Force ROTC. Just go to the Armory and see how Air Force trains. Army runs in formation, and I mean runs, with all the cadets screaming a cadence while Air Force has no formation, no cadence, and half the people quit the run. Navy, if I’m not mistaken, only PTs twice a week, unlike the Army’s three times. It doesn’t sound like much, but believe me, it makes a big difference.</p>

<p>Fifth, Navy and Air Force have more engineers because you use more of your engineering skills with them. You have to make Major in the Army Corps of Engineers before you really get to manage construction projects, until then, you are an infantry platoon leader with extra C4. In the Navy, you’re running sophisticated mechanical/electrical devices, i.e. ships, as a civil engineer you actually manage construction in the Navy from day one. The same can be said of the Air Force, as an engineer you get way closer to using your engineering skills than you ever would in the Army. </p>

<p>Wildandyoung, ask yourself this. After busting your but for 5 years in one of the nation’s hardest engineering colleges do you want to run an infantry platoon with extra C4 and junior officers that graduated with psychology degrees, or do you want to run high tech equipment, program computers (Air Force really does have a ciber warfare function), etc… with junior officers that studied engineering?</p>

<p>Dad, the answer to the above question is why engineers tend to join the Navy and Air Force. Couple that with a really tough program, and Army ROTC is very thin on engineers.</p>

<p>I’ll say this though. Army ROTC and Basic Training molded me into the man I am today. It was tough, and it made me appreciate the freedoms we all take for granted. It did not really give me discipline, but it did make me painfully aware of the complete lack of it in most people. Army ROTC brought out the leader in me, I just could not surmount the challenge. If I were to do it again, I probably would have picked the Navy or Air Force because my chances of completing those would have been higher.</p>

6

<p>I’m still trying to figure out your beef with OOS with instate, NAFTA. I think you are more comparing the SMP requirements with the conventional ROTC (which is available to instate, if you get the more competitive scholarship through Cadet Command).</p>

<p>I’ll agree that SMP is more hours that ROTC (ROTC was the path the OP was inquiring about) as you have your Guard duties stacked on top of the ROTC requirements, but likewise, the SMP candidate is getting a more stipend, years of service during his/her college years (ROTC does not give years of service until commissioning). </p>

<p>5:45 AM doesn’t know what major you are. You seem to think that non-STEM majors don’t have to engage their brains in class. Not giving sympathy points here. And if it makes you feel any better, hockey players where my daughter is are on the ice long before the ROTC is in formation for PT. And that is 4 days a week with “voluntary” lifting a couple nights a week. Oh, and half the weekends during the season they are on the road, missing some Friday classes (which they have to arrange to make up work in). </p>

<p>And while goaliegirl is not taking one of those STEM majors you think are that much tougher than the rest, about 1/2 her team is in similar majors to yours (chemistry, nursing, biology, etc.) and do quite well.</p>

<p>And while you go onto trash Navy/AF ROTC cadets, I’ll remind you that they spend ever bit as much time polishing their brass (or even more) than Army. Your observation of those units at your school are just that. I had the opportunity to observe both Army and AF cadets at PT for a year at the gym where I worked out. Quite frankly the AF guys were actually in as good shape as the Army guys. Neither shouted jodies as they ran. What I’m saying her is that every unit of every branch is a little different in their operations and who they have as cadets.</p>

<p>And as to your trashing Army and praising Navy/AF job opportunities for engineers, I’ll tell you that I’ve know a few AF engineers who spent their first 3 years guarding missiles in North Dakota. Hardly the place where you have hands on experience with the latest electronics and market technology. Point here is that no matter the branch, you serve where Uncle Sam says you serve. Sometimes you get a job that really matches your desired career path, sometimes not.</p>

<p>And BTW, you forget the largest (and probably best) engineering corps in the country is the Army Corps of Engineers. They get the really big and difficult jobs in Civil Engineering. And as to EE stuff, AF/Navy get to play with the fancier toys, but the actual design/build belongs to contractors. And BTW, the officers actually mostly oversee the enlisted who play with the toys. Most officers are not hands on in any branch. Yes, you need to be promoted to manage projects, but I don’t know any 23-year-old outside the military who gets to manage engineering projects in private industry. Junior officers learn the details of managing projects, taking on smaller roles up front. </p>

<p>I’m sorry that you could not manage your schedule to include ROTC/SMP. I’m really sorry that you evaluate a branch of the service on the effort put forth by a few ROTC cadets in morning PT as to how easy/hard it is. Any ROTC (and for that matter service after ROTC) opportunity is what you make of it. Small efforts in yield small results out. </p>

<p>And remember, there are lots of people who manage to make ROTC and other challenges at college work be it a difficult major or another EC (which all branches of ROTC encourage). Back when I was in school, my roommate in the dorms was Navy ROTC and a Nuke E major with GPA north of 3.5 and at a more difficult institution than UIUC, if you can believe that. He spent many evenings starching his uniform and polishing his brass and shoes. He even joined a couple of ECs. Granted, he didn’t have a social life outside of those things and I never saw him go to a party, but that wasn’t him.</p>

<p>Best of luck to the OP in his decision. It is not an easy route to take, but if your desires are strong, you can make it work.</p>

7

<p>Just to the basics of the original question, no UIUC does not waive tuition for OOS ROTC students. State law requires UIUC to waive tuition and certain fees for in-state ROTC students; that law does not apply to OOS.</p>

8

<p>While the U of I does not waive the OOS surcharge, the NROTC scholarship covers the surcharge. My son is currently a junior on a NROTC Scholarship and every semester his tuition, the engineering surcharge and the OOS surcharge and fees are posted to his account and within about 2 weeks, NROTC credits for nearly everything (some misc. fees aren’t covered, but they total about $75 per semester) are posted to the account.</p>

<p>Just make sure the scholarship is for the U of I. When my son applied, the advice was to list the most expensive school as his first choice. The ROTC will let you transfer the scholarship, but it is much easier to have the scholarship moved from an expensive school to a lower cost school, rather than the other way around.</p>