<p>I know there are quite a few students from the UK on this forum, so I thought I'd ask for opinions.</p>
<p>I've applied to 5 schools in the UK -- Edinburgh, UCL, KCL, Durham, and St. Andrews.</p>
<p>So far I've only gotten a response from KCL (unconditional offer), which is probably my last choice to be honest. My first choice at the moment is Edinburgh. I'm applying for English Literature and History. </p>
<p>What do you guys think about the English/History departments of these particular schools, and about their environments and living conditions in general, as compared to one another? Also, what do you think about undergraduate education in the UK vs. the US at major universities (not liberal arts schools)? A lot of people have told me to stay in the US for undergrad, but I do really love Britain, in my "grass-is-always-greener" way, and have wanted to live there for a long time. </p>
<p>I know this is a bit broad, but I'd be very grateful for any advice you might offer. :)</p>
<p>Well those are all good schools, and congratulations on an unconditional offer!</p>
<p>As far as rankings go, Kings College (that’s what you mean by KCL, right?) is further down the list for English than a lot of other universities. But that doesn’t really mean too much, you’re still going to get a good English degree there. They’re great for history though.</p>
<p>The UK degree education is a lot more specific, as I’m sure you know from looking up what you want to do. There’s no ‘concentration’ as such, you do the course you sign up for and then you stay on it. Which is great if you know exactly what you want to study.</p>
<p>Have you visited any of those places?</p>
<p>They’re very different in terms of cities. London is, well, London. It’s big and busy and and there’s lots of stuff to do. Personally I love London but I know a lot of people who hate it. And it’s much more expensive to live/study there. Edinburgh on the other hand is BEAUTIFUL. Probably the most beautiful place I’ve seen in the UK, it’s oldyworldy combined with a modern town. Really, it’s super.</p>
<p>Yes, sorry, I meant King’s. I realize it’s not as known for English – it was my last choice and I applied slightly last minute, and on second thought probably should have applied for history there. I’m afraid that may be why I was accepted to English unconditionally. </p>
<p>To be honest, I am not sure I really want to live in London anyway (despite applying to UCL) – I loved the city last time I went, but it seems awfully big and intimidating and I’m not sure I want quite THAT much independence. Having said that, Edinburgh is obviously also a city and probably requires a lot of independence as well – what do you think? I haven’t been but it does seem lovely and there’s the Festival and things which are a big pull. Do you think going to a more “campus-based” school like Durham or St. Andrews would provide more support?</p>
<p>On another note, I notice from your previous posts that you’re applying to schools in the US. Is there any particular reason for this? Do you simply want a broader subject range or is there a further draw to schools here for you? Also, how would you compare a university like Edinburgh to a top US University? I understand it’s reputation is great in the UK, but it is a smaller place after all, and I’m worried about going overseas to a school that is not as prestigious as one I might get into here (I’ve applied to some first-tier schools I think I have a shot at – not necessarily ivies, but very solid). I don’t like to worry too much about reputation or rankings, you understand, but they are a factor I can’t help but be concerned with (not for employment reasons, but simply because they reassure me I’m getting a quality education).</p>
<p>I think you’ll get plenty of support at King’s. London will be kind to you as long as you’re not afraid of it! I lived there for a short while and I grew up in a fairly small city and I was fine. Once you make friends and get to know your way around you’ll be sorted. Edinburgh I think is a bit more campus-y so if that’s what you’re looking for then it might be better for you. If you wanted to change to History at KCL I don’t think that would be a problem, you could ask them.</p>
<p>Perhaps my love of America is like yours of England. I feel very at home there. I’m 21 years old so I’ve had some time to figure out exactly what I want to be doing, and I want to be a musician and continue to make music independently but I’d love to have the university experience and learn just for the sake of learning. That’s why I was attracted to the liberal education system. That said, if I don’t get accepted to any of my US colleges I plan to apply again in the UK (I did apply straight from high school in 2005 but declined) and of those, while I haven’t finalised my list yet, I would apply to Nottingham and Manchester for sure. I think Nottingham is my top choice for the UK. So I have nothing against studying here. We have a lot of very good universities, wherever you go you can guarantee a good education.</p>
<p>Your situation sounds like my brother’s (also 21, a musician, and not yet entered college properly. He’s currently at community college and floundering though, while you clearly have things planned out). I agree with what you’re saying about the liberal arts education, but I really am fed up with the American education system (obsession with EC’s and padded resumes, favoring of minorities, grade inflation – and really horrible, shallow, rankings-obsessed high school experience I need to get away from). The Scottish system does appeal to me though because it offers a bit more freedom.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your advice. I’ve heard some nightmare stories about the administration at UoL, but I’m sure it will provide a great education regardless, and I’ll definitely consider it. Do you think I should ask KCL to switch to history now, or wait until I’ve made a firm acceptance?</p>
<p>On a completely different subject, I have a very naive dream of applying to Oxbridge next year (I made my mind up too late and missed the early deadline). Could I do so from a uni in the UK, or indeed from one in the US, or do you know if it’s necessary to take a gap year (in which case my parents probably wouldn’t let me)?</p>
<p>I’m also an American student about to go to university in the UK.</p>
<p>I applied and got offers from Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Imperial, and Leeds. I applied for physics, though, so I can’t really comment on the course.</p>
<p>Personally, I’ll be going to Edinburgh next year. I loved the city; it is beautiful and has so much culture. It’s also not too big, so it’s fairly easy to navigate and figure out where things are. I decided that I didn’t want to live in London because it would be terribly expensive, and is so busy and crowded. </p>
<p>When I was in Scotland in January, I visited the town of St. Andrews. You should know, it is very small. It is more than an hour away from any major cities, so if you are someone who wants to be close to a big city/a person who doesn’t really like small towns, St Andrews is not for you. That being said, it is beautiful and right on the coast, and the university is really strong as well.</p>
<p>I know Durham is meant to be well good, although I didn’t apply or visit there.</p>
<p>Also, with regards to Oxbridge: You could reapply from uni in the UK, but once you got to Oxbridge, you’d have to restart your course. I am fairly certain that they do not accept any transfers.</p>
<p>Yeah, transfering isn’t really something we do. If you want to go somewhere else you just quit one place and start again. I’m not sure if you can apply to Oxbridge as a student here, as I think think applications are slightly different than for everywhere else. And do bear in mind that you can only apply to one of them.</p>
<p>In all honesty, why are you going to college in the UK when it seems you seek a non threatening experience? In my experience, the kids who go and do well are kids who relish the thought of a big city, new challenges and total independence. </p>
<p>You’ll be on the other side of a big old pond where friends and family won’t just be popping in. Although the language is the same, the cultural differences unsettle some. These schools are not warm and fuzzy like many US schools. It will be difficult if you decide to transfer back to the states because of the vast difference in the systems.</p>
<p>You’re right, hmom5, and it’s something I’ll have to think about very hard after I’ve received my acceptances and visited the schools. It is something, though, that I really want to at least give myself the opportunity to do, even if I decide not to in the end. And part of the exercise of going overseas is to get away from my overprotective parents and gain some independence – just not sure I want to dive into a huge metropolis like London just yet (though I have family there, and I’m quite familiar with British culture). </p>
<p>Yes, congrats on Edinburgh, Spriteling! I’m very jealous, because that’s my #1. Perhaps if I get in I’ll see you there next year (though I’ll be in humanities).</p>
<p>I know St. Andrews is very isolated – that’s why I applied there as well as Edinburgh, because I wanted two very different environments to choose from (also the case with applying to Durham, which has the collegiate system, as well as an amazing English program). I’ve done the same with my schools in the States – some big, some small, some urban, some in the middle of nowhere. I’m open to anything really, I think it’s the feel of the college itself I’m concerned about. If the campus is vibrant enough, I won’t need a city. Then again, Edinburgh is a very small city, and from what I’ve heard you can go almost anywhere on foot and constantly see people you know. That’s a completely unique experience in itself. </p>
<p>As for Oxbridge – if I got in I’m not sure I’d mind starting over, because that would add up to a four-year experience in all, which is what people here have anyway. It’s so difficult to get in, anyway, that I’d certainly want to be happy where I was in case of (probable) rejection.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the very sound advice, all of you!</p>
<p>A few states away should be plenty to shake overprotective parents:)</p>
<p>It’s become popular of late among my kids’ friends to look at UK schools. Frankly, it seems many who don’t get into their ivy or top LAC choices like schools like St. Andrews because they initially seem more glamorous than their US choices. </p>
<p>I’ve seen many change their mind at the last minute and many go and come back. Make sure you truly know what the experience will be. Good luck!</p>
<p>Well, shaking my parents certainly isn’t the only reason.</p>
<p>I don’t know anyone else applying to school in the UK – I think I’m the only one at my high school, and I am very familiar with British culture because of relatives, etc. </p>
<p>I’m curious to know; why did these kids not enjoy their experience? Is it because they got homesick, found the academics not up to par, disliked the system, etc?</p>
<p>Frankly, I’d much rather go somewhere like Edinburgh than most of the ivies I’ve visited/interviewed for. I think all places have their ups and downs, but I have more reason than simply wanting to go to the same school as Prince William; I genuinely prefer the academic system, and I’m certainly not that concerned about prestige (other than as an indicator of the teaching, student satisfaction, etc.)</p>
<p>Thanks though, this is important to mull over and I’m happy to discuss it now.</p>
<p>At the NYC prep schools, the boarding prep schools and in other affluent places, applying to European schools has become popular. Several of these schools send 8 or 10 just to St. Andrews every year. Prince William’s tenure there started the trend. Again, I think they are most popular among kids who didn’t get into the top US schools they aimed at.</p>
<p>The reason many don’t enjoy it is because it isn’t the same as the American colleges that are their norm. They don’t have the privilege American students do of changing majors a few times and have to mostly study their major as opposed to getting to try a lot of things as they would have in the US. There are not all the EC experiences and they pack a lot into the three years not leaving as much time for the parties and travelling in Europe as they thought they would have. </p>
<p>Also, you need to be on a pretty big budget to live and travel in Europe. Many of these kids do get lots of money from parents and it creates a pretty big divide for those who don’t. Europe is very class conscious, something most Americans are not as used to.</p>
<p>If you are certain that the academic system is for you, then I’d definitely encourage coming. If you’re not entirely sure that you want to study English and/or history, I’d stay in the US. Also: You should know, Scottish degrees are 4 years long, just like American degrees, rather than three years, like English degrees. This is because they allow for you to take more general classes in your first year, and then you begin to specialise more in your second and third years. In this respect, they are more similar to American universities.</p>
<p>Also: St. Andrews has a lot of American students. I think it’s almost as much as 15%? Just something to consider.</p>
<p>“Europe is very class conscious” I can’t say I’ve ever noticed that. Actually, I think it’s more evident in America, from what I’ve seen. But I haven’t been there for a great deal of time so maybe that’s not an accurate idea.</p>
<p>I’m going to get very off-topic here, but from what I’ve read/heard from Europeans (I’m quite interested in the subject), I think Europe is historically and visibly more class conscious (titles, perception of “working class” vs. “upper class” etc), while in fact it is far more socialist and your position in society is in actuality less based on money than within the capitalist culture of America (Americans love success and celebrity, and “the American dream” pretends that everyone can ascend to the heights of society). So I would say Europeans are more aware of class, but it is in actuality not more present – in fact things like the NHS and the affordability of state-run universities display an attempt to acknowledge and drive out class from society. Remember, Britain is built upon empiricism (what is observable) while America is built upon idealism (inconcrete and impossible to measure). The British government is far more willing to meddle with hundreds of years of tradition (i.e. reforming the House of Lords) than the American is to change one word of the Constitution. At least that’s my (longwinded) take on it./end rant</p>
<p>Anyway, leaving such discussions aside, I am indeed aware of the differences in the Scottish system, which is why I’m looking at Edinburgh as my first choice. I’m adverse to going to St. Andrews precisely because of it’s “rich American” reputation (while I realize Edinburgh attracts many Americans as well). Though it is a good school, I’d like to avoid those types if at all possible. In all honesty, though daily costs may be more expensive, the tuition itself is so much less than going to a $50,000 American private school, I think it will balance out. Plus the recession has been nice and dropped the pound a bit. And I’m not concerned about partying or traveling around the rest of Europe (a 4-hour train ride to London once in a while will be satisfactory). </p>
<p>There, I’ve managed to justify going to school in the UK to myself. Only time will tell whether I am sadly delusional.</p>
<p>In Europe it’s still important what your blood lines are. In America, education defines class today.</p>
<p>Katsika, I hope you’ve worked the numbers. Whether an American school or a European one is cheaper depends on your family’s income and assets. If you’d have to pay full at either, the European schools may be cheaper than all but a state college in the US.</p>
<p>However, you get no Pell Grant if your family income is over $40K and you would be only looking at loans. You want to be careful how much you borrow. </p>
<p>I looked at all these schools you’re looking at 3 years ago with my DD. While St. Andrew’s has the most Americans, Edinburgh has a fair and ever increasing number and they are the same wealthy prep school crowd as at SA. The plain fact is none of these schools are comfortable for most middle class families. Kids who can get into Edinburgh would get merit scholarships at many American schools not to mention need based aid that’s simply not available across the pond.</p>
<p>If you are one of the 10 members of the royal family, then yes. I don’t think you realise how offensive this statement could be. Maybe you don’t mean it like this but this is exactly the “superior American” attitude that makes the world hate you. Consider that all stereotypes you so firmly believe in might not be true. I advise you never to leave the US. You will give other Americans a bad name. </p>
<p>Back to the OP.
The thing that worries me about St Andrews is nothing to do with the school itself but that many of the posts about it seems to be along the lines of “I want to go to foreign school but keep me away from any non-Americans”. What is the point of going then? Also, St Andrews carries such a prestige in the US because Prince William went there, which it totally does NOT in the UK. He’s not even that bright, people don’t care. Don’t go there for that reason.</p>
<p>If you like Oxbridge, you will also like Durham. It’s the only other place which is similar. The town is very small. I’m not sure if it’s quite as small as St Andrews, but it’s still little. </p>
<p>Though Edinburgh is a bigger city, it’s tiny compared to London. The London living experience is going to be very different from the other places. </p>
<p>You are absolutely right to be looking into the specific rating/ranking of the subject you are applying for. It doesn’t matter if you go to a top rated university so much as you should try to go to a placed that is highly rated for the subject you are applying for. Since you can’t switch, that’s the main thing.</p>
<p>You can apply to Oxbridge if yu are currently enrolled at another UK school. I suspect they would ask you why if you were interviewed, but there is nothing to stop you doing this.</p>
<p>Cupcake, not only do I leave the US often, I have many that report to me in several European offices and have for many years. What I wrote is what Europeans have told me over and over and has been my personal experience. Mobility is not in Europe what it is in the US. I have to exert my influence among my staff there to stop hiring people related to royalty and focus on the deserving.</p>
<p>Be a bit careful with the use of the term ‘Europe’ though. Most Europeans only refer to Europe as mainland Europe, which doesn’t include Britain. The UK is vastly different to anywhere else in Europe.</p>
<p>“In Europe it’s still important what your blood lines are. In America, education defines class today.”</p>
<p>Surely that’s the same as it being an advantage to have a legacy within a college? Or having connections within a workplace?</p>