<p>I'd say you're right about St. Andrews noct. It's fine, but not the academic powerhouse it pretends to be.</p>
<p>Two things, jwagner: The Guardian has erratic ratings, and the Good University Guide isn't one of the respected tables- it's not put out by academics, but by Price Waterhouse Coopers, not exactly education specialists. See the Times Higher Education Supplement tables, the Sunday Times tables, The Times online tables, and the Shaghai Jiao Tong University tables for accurate and consistent ratings.</p>
<p>Also, you're wrong about St. Andrews having an unusually high proportion of international students for a British university. Many UK universities have a high proportion of international students. My university in London certainly does. To be accurate, St. Andrews has an unusually high proportion of American students, I think the highest in the UK, at around 15%.</p>
<p>to be fair London is always filled with International Students half the student of LSE is International "counting EU" yes for some reason Edinburgh and St. Andrews get more Americans than UCL, Warwick, Bristol, Kings weird~~</p>
<p>King- St. Andrew's and Edinburgh are well sold to US high school students and their parents. St. Andrew's is quite easy for Americans to get into, Edinburgh and Kings's, somewhat less easy, Warwick, Bristol, and UCL not easy.</p>
<p>You're right about the internationalism at LSE and all the UoL unis actually.</p>
<p>psmyth000- Shanghai Jiao Tong ratings put St. Andrews in the 16th - 23rd range in the UK, 57th - 80th range in Europe, and 150th - 202nd range in the world:</p>
<p>Not bad by any means, but not the outstanding status (the Oxbridge of Scotland) that they suggest to gullible US high schoolers and their well heeled parents.</p>
<p>It's true that the SJTU rankings assess university wide research across all departments, and that their findings consequently put specialty institutions like the LSE at a disadvantage. With this proviso I think they are quite accurate.</p>
<p>I'm with psmyth000...the Shaghai Jiao Tong rankings, like most world-wide attempts at ranking universities, are way off. In my opinion, way too many methodological problems to be considered an accurate indicator of quality. </p>
<p>I don't know where you get your information on admission requirements, but St Andrews currently has the 4th highest entry standards in the United Kingdom, just behind Oxbridge and the LSE. It may be easier for foreign students to gain entry - the university wants to increase its percentage of international students - but not much. </p>
<p>As for the comparisons with Oxbridge, let's look at the facts:</p>
<ol>
<li> Ancient university, oldest in Scotland; 3rd oldest in the English-speaking world behind Oxbridge</li>
<li> Many traditions: academic robes, college scarves, garden parties, etc.</li>
<li> Highest research scores in Scotland</li>
<li> Highest teaching scores in Scotland</li>
<li> Highest admission requirements in Scotland</li>
<li> Highest student satisfaction scores in UK</li>
<li> International reputation; perhaps one of the four most well-reputed British universities in the United States; links/exchanges with Princeton, Columbia, Georgetown, Penn, etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>I don't mean to give anyone the hard sell, but I think the "Oxbridge of Scotland" moniker is appropriate...</p>
<p>This is an aside, but I can tell you that the only tradition that I ever saw at St. Andrews was the oldest tradition: getting very very drunk and doing silly things. Not that that is a bad thing, but don't have the impression that there are garden parties and college scarves...</p>
<p>Its likely that peoples experiences vary, but for me the maintenance of unique traditions was rather obvious. You cant really walk through town without seeing someone dressed in a bright red undergraduate gown; for special events, such as hall dinners, church, and graduation, nearly everyone wears their academic robes. Undergraduate, postgraduate, and specific college/faculty scarves each have their own color scheme and history. I would see a variety of scarves, daily. I think you could probably attend a garden/beach party every day of the week, if you really put your mind to it. I attended one such party per week, except during the winter months when a hard wind off the North Sea makes most outdoor activities less than enjoyable. There are also a number of traditional events, such as Raisin Week, the May Dip, the May Ball, etc. A good amount of drinking does go on, but youd find that at most colleges in the United Kingdom, including Oxbridge. I lived in both Cambridge and St Andrews for a significant amount of time and can say that they are very similar, but still unique and different. </p>
<p>Disclaimer: Im a former graduate student in international relations at St Andrews. I conducted research at Cambridge, the LSE, Aberystwyth, and KCL.</p>
<p>Was this quite a while ago? Nobody but a tourist, or perhaps a really gormless newly arrived JYA student would be seen dead in a college scarf now.</p>
<p>Sorry I misunderstood what you meant by garden party. I thought you were trying to say that there are regular outdoor black tie functions--small relatively informal functions on West Sands/Castle Sands and at homes are quite common. </p>
<p>Academic robes must have fallen out of style between the time you attended and the time I attended. When I attended, far less than 20% wore their academic robe at least once per week and many students didn't even own academic robes. </p>
<p>As for college scarves, I may have seen a few, but they were a rare sight. The May Dip, The May Ball, Raisin Weekend, etc. are still going strong though the latter has really upset the town in the past few years...</p>
<p>I do think the moniker Oxford/Cambridge of Scotland is appropriate as it is the closest thing to these Universities in Scotland, but I realize that the University of St. Andrews isn't the 3rd or 4th most academically rigorous/best university in the UK. I think that I'd seat it around 8th-10th overall.
For Chemistry and International Relations, I would place it 1st or 2nd best. Subject rankings matter much more in my opinion than overall rankings.</p>
<p>All that being said, I think it would be my first or second choice--Cambridge being my other choice--if I were to return the UK. For what it's worth, I think that it is a perfect place for graduate level work or study abroad from NA. </p>
<p>It's a nice place and a great university and any American students wishing to attend school in the UK should certainly consider it.</p>