<p>It is great to see Yale make such strides in engineering in the last decades. A couple of their programs are highly ranked and they are getting lots of funded research opportunities.To advise a kid with an interest and aptitude in engineering not to pursue it at the undergraduate level is shortsighted. If anything, many schools are ramping up their offerings in engineering and science, not just Yale.</p>
<p>He didn’t tell D not to pursue engineering, he told D that he didn’t think undergrad *business *degrees had a lot of value. The comment about undergrad not being for “vocational” training was in reference to that. When I pointed out that engineering was an undergrad career-specific degree he only questioned the wisdom of pursuing engineering at a school where it would require leaving the college to change majors. He also questioned an engineering degree that doesn’t require any courses in writing or social science, etc. In other words, he’s into a broad liberal arts education even if the concentration is in engineering.</p>
<p>I’m not going to defend his point of view, I asked him about the undergrad business degree because I have a sense, from here and elsewhere, that undergrad business may not be the best thing to do. Since he went to Wharton, and it was recently news to me that Wharton even had an undergrad program, I asked him about it. </p>
<p>He is in his mid 70s and has a certain perspective I don’t always agree with, but let’s not say he hates engineers or thinks they have no value because that is definitely not true.</p>
<p>He actually only went to Wharton because he got a job in summer during undergrad that told him if he got an MBA they’d hire him. So he did.</p>
<p>“vocational school” “under that disparaging banner is any type of undergrad engineering or business.”</p>
<p>Okay, that is what is confusing. If it’s not his point of view about engineering, whose is it?</p>
<p>He discouraged studying for one particular career as an undergrad and did indeed equate it to vocational school. That doesn’t mean he thinks engineers are worthless.</p>
<p>“Disparaging” was my addition.</p>
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<p>I think we could argue that engineers learn a lot more than job-specific skills; they study math and various sciences and probably cover writing and other things as well at most schools.</p>
<p>I imagine business undergrads do too, depending where they go to school.</p>
<p>I guess his overriding point was that he favors a broad liberal arts education for undergrads.</p>
<p>PS: I personally think being able to get a well-paying job with just an undergrad degree is a huge plus.</p>
<p>Frankly, the advice of anyone who equates getting through an undergraduate engineering curriculum with going to vocational school should probably be taken with a grain of salt (although I’m sure he’s a great guy). My BIL is a Yale grad and a humanites professor and did not discourage my kids from studying engineering. His own son is studying computer science at an Ivy. And yes, engineering students can and do take courses outside of engineering, such as social science and writing courses. Thank you for clarifying things.
Yes. OHMomof2, Getting a good job that pays well and has them doing interesting work has been a bonus.</p>
<p>Definitely taking his advice with a grain of salt. He’s quite opinionated about certain things and due to his age, he gets to be, I think, at least in our family. I do think he’d be thrilled if D chose engineering, regardless of how vocational he thinks a career-specific undergrad education is ;)</p>
<p>I think one reason D is attracted to engineering is because it is her sense that she won’t have to take so many other courses…not entirely sure that’s a good reason to do it but she’s still in the initial stages of deciding what she wants to study, and where.</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry to have hijacked the thread. I think I brought this up in the context of Ivy attitudes and we certainly diverged a bit…</p>
<p>I’ve never heard of Swarthmore College, Wellesley College, and Wesleyan University. But I assume that they are all 60k/year liberal arts schools. That article is terrible, and should include some good public schools instead like UVA, UMich, and Berkeley</p>
<p>Engineering is a great field for a woman. Good luck to your daughter in deciding what to study and where to go for college!</p>
<p>Many thanks sevmom!</p>
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<p>Berkeley is a wonderful school. I’m an alum. But if you are coming from out of state, Berkeley is going to be over $50k a year. I believe the same is true of UMich (if one doesn’t get scholarship dollars), not sure about UVA. Public does not mean inexpensive.</p>
<p>If you’ve not heard of Swarthmore, Wellesley or Wesleyan, it just means you’ve not been on College Confidential very long. 
They are indeed wonderful schools. They offer significant need-based aid, making them in many cases cheaper to attend than the public schools you named–even for in-state residents.</p>
<p>UVa will also be over $50,000 for an OOS student. Tuition alone is 36,000 plus up to a high of 38,000 plus( for engineering).</p>
<p>OHmom,</p>
<p>Just tell the old guy that engineering, not liberal arts, is the most representative undergrad major by far for Fortune 500 or 1000 CEOs.</p>
<p>Some liberal arts schools, like the ones listed here, are definitely overpriced.</p>
<p>“Some liberal arts schools, like the ones listed here, are definitely overpriced”</p>
<p>These very same liberal art schools offer some of the best financial aid in the country. Just looking at the CDS, the average scholarship received by incoming students at…</p>
<p>Williams- 44,508
Amherst-48,528 (no packaged loan policy)
Swarthmore- 39,427 (no packaged loan policy)
Pomona- 46,477 (no packaged loan policy)
Wesleyan- 42,088
Wellesley- 41,440</p>
<p>Compared to some of the Ivy League schools:
U’Penn- 41,440 (no packaged loan policy)
Dartmouth- 45,609
Princeton- 42,002 (no packaged loan policy)
Brown- 40,523 </p>
<p>Pretty comparable, and if you looked at net cost, around the same price as attending an in-state school.</p>
<p>I say there are no alternatives to Ivy Leagues. The schools that you’ve listed need no alternatives, they can stand on their own. How can MIT be an alternative to any Ivy League, I mean seriously?</p>
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<p>But, people have been saying the same thing about the eight colleges within the Ivy League for years. What does Harvard have in common with Columbia or either one of them to Dartmouth? They’re all unique.</p>