<p>I think counselor recs are a waste of time but teacher recs are in fact very valuable. What distinguishes 2 outwardly smart kids is their character. Teacher recs let you see the difference between students who may not put in a lot of effort, talk in class, but get great grades from brains and students who are also bright, but put in a great amount of effort, time, energy, and are polite and courteous at school. </p>
<p>At a top college, I sure would hope to see more of the latter.</p>
<p>I think recs in general are a very valuable part of the application process, and when I did my applications I took who was going to write them very seriously. The ones I found most valuable weren't the teacher or counselor recs because, I'll agree, for a lot of kids, they will pretty much be the same, they were the ones that were required from an outside source, someone who knew me from outside the classroom. I felt these recs gave me the best chance to shine, this is where a coach can say that you may not be the best player on the field but you always give 100% or a volunteer coordinator can say that you spent 20 hours making calls on election week because you had a passion. I really think that schools should use these types of letters more because it gives you the opportunity to choose someone who has seen you in action for doing something you care about. If these types of letters replaced one of the required teacher recs it might cut down on the barrage of requests to very popular teachers as many kids don't have the same passions. Just my $.02.</p>
<p>My Counselor rec was generic... :(</p>
<p>Too many kids, not enough counselors. Now I'm worried.</p>
<p>Wow, see how FAKE recommendations are. I think colleges shouldn't ask applicants for such pieces of hypocrisy.</p>
<p>I don't see how it's hypocritical if the student really deserves a good rec and can get one. Since colleges are looking at students holistically, the more pertinent information they can receive the better. It just seems that unfortunately there are a shortage of counselors at too many places.</p>
<p>I guess one major problem I have is that this aspect of the process can be more of a test of the eloquence and enthusiasm of the teacher, and less of an expression of qualities of the student. Not every student gets the opportunity to have an inspiring teacher, or one with whom that student gets an opportunity to "shine." That's a function of the school more than of the student. Already there is the subjective and inconsistent element of grades; that now gets amplified by the even more subjective and random element of recommendations. (I should note that I have to secure recommendations for my personal accreditation every few years even now. It's no less of a crock at this level than at the college app stage.)</p>
<p>maybe if you can find a suitable replacement there can be an exchange, but how else can you get a point of view of what the student is thought of by his peers and others.</p>
<p>About letters of recommendation- I asked my teacher to write one for me ages ago, but I'm afraid he won't be able to meet the postmark date. What am I supposed to do about it? Will my application be rejected?</p>
<p>no, they won't blame you for it simply because it's out of your control... just try to make sure it gets in in a reasonable timeframe</p>
<p>The teachers rec's are much more important than the GC.
If you're smart, you'll inform your teachers that you're applying to the most challenging colleges you can qualify for, and then impress the hell out of those teachers.
Simple, isn't it?</p>
<p>one thing i noticed that no one has said here inbetween saying they should get rid of recs all together is the fact that they are relatively low on what colleges look at. get good grades, sat scores, be active with sports, groups, w/e, and write a good college essay and you should be fine. many schools in fact do not even require recommendations (my first choice didn't, but i sent them anyway because i had connections with my teachers). nonetheless i get the feeling that everyone on CC is freaking out about college. The thing that made my applications so easy is that i was confident in what i wrote for grades and scores and did no aim for colleges that were out of my spectrum. the biggest mistake made is picking colleges to apply to based on word of mouth. you have to visit to really understand what the school is like!</p>
<p>I feel bad for the child whose parent forged the letter. The child may not have known what the parent was doing and therefore could have been unfairly punished. </p>
<p>Some parents are total nutters. Its quite scary the lengths they can go to keep thier child 'on top'.</p>
<p>The whole process of recomendation seems strange to me. Even for job interviews etc. It is so subjective and potentially unfair. </p>
<p>Do teachers ever say to a student that they think it would be better if someone else wrote the recomendation? If i was a teacher and had a bad student i would not want to lie nor would i want to ruin thier chances at getting into college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do teachers ever say to a student that they think it would be better if someone else wrote the recomendation?
[/quote]
I've had a couple of kids I felt that way about. The one I had the most trouble with didn't ask me, thank god, but I was prepared to say no. Another student who asked me was actually pretty low performing in my activity (a competitive math team). I suggested that one of her CC profs might be a better choice than me. But she convinced me that they didn't know her and she really had no one else to ask, so I did the best I could. It was a pleasure to have her in the group, and I really liked her, but she actually was pretty bad at it. She was a strong humanities person applying to LACs. They were probably impressed that she even attempted such an unlikely thing as a math team.</p>
<p>personally, i think the whole reccomendation/evaluation letter system is useless and deceptful (just like many other aspects of American college admissions). Some teachers may be unable to write as well as others and this may have a negative impact on the student. Not to mention its a waste of time because 95% of the letters are more or less identical. I have heard of cases in which good students were denied admission partially based on the fact that their evaluation letters weren't "personal" enough. That's completely bogus.</p>
<p>All colleges should have an optional teacher recommendation policy: those students who feel that a recommendation would be valuable can submit one, but nobody has to.</p>
<p>Counselor recommendations are a complete waste of time, however. I'm not sure my counselor even knew my name. I'd never met her until the end of my junior year, and I only spend a grand total of probably 2-3 hours with her, ever. I tried to make a good impression on her, but the fact is that I was only one of hundreds of student she deals with every day. She hardly knew anything about me--I don't know what on earth she could have possibly said about me in that letter.</p>
<p>GCs at my kids' HS had a form for the "brag sheet" that they requested parents to complete and return so that the GCs could learn more about the kids. This was most important for my own kids since they ended up with brand-new GCs their senior years.</p>
<p>At my high school, you can't even ask the GC or the teacher for a letter without submitting a brag sheet - including along with grades and accomplishments a list of adjectives describing myself and my future plans. They should be an optional aspect of the application. My GC letters were a complete waste of everybody's time - we've one GC for the entire 500ish senior class. However, my teacher rec was very helpful. I asked for a letter from a teacher I've had through various classes for over two years, who helped me win awards and leads some of my extracurriculars. Honestly, it's helpful to have an adult reassure the college that I really am as good at a particular subject as I say I am, or conversely, despite my grades, I work hard and try my best. The GC recs - what could they possibly offer besides, at the very best, "they come in to ask me about college a lot!"?</p>
<p>the definition of reccomendation has a positive spin</p>
<p>
[quote]
something (as a course of action) that is recommended as advisable
something that recommends (or expresses commendation) of a person or thing as worthy or desirable
any quality or characteristic that gains a person a favorable reception or acceptance or admission;
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Doesn't mean that negative attributes can't be mentioned- but in a way that is illustrated how they are then handled.</p>
<p>My daughter is taking Ap classes- just a couple years ago she was in SPED- the AP class is very difficult for her- but she wants to persevere. Her AP teacher could either write about how the class is difficult and how she isn't doing as well as the rest of the students- which would be accurate- or he could add that in his opinion she is courageous for trying such a difficult course load and he appreciates that she isn't trying to just keep the high GPA she had freshman year, but is trying the most challenging courses she can . That would be even more accurate because it isn't just giving a narrow view of her grades and scores.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At my kids' school there are over 500 student for each counsellor. Unless a kid sets the cafeteria on fire there's really not much reason for a counsellor to have much of an idea of who he is that isn't obvious from the student's transcript.
[/quote]
hmm ... I agree that in a cohort of kids (say the honors kids) they would all be good kids that would do fine at most schools. </p>
<p>However, they all have something that makes them stand out in their cohort at their school. Among my academic cohort group I was the jock, Ann was the intellectual/activisit, Susan was the actor/playwrite, Graham was the musician, etc ... hopefully our recommendations brought both our (very similar) general characteristics (good student, helpful member of the community, leadership, etc) but also gave the insight into the specific passion and unique attributes we would bring to the school. One of my recs was from my coach, I'm sure a very common source of recs, but I also know (in general) what he wrote ... he wrote about how I approached being a captain (which he viewed very highly and as unique) ... while I was the "basic jock" applying I believe my recommendation helped schools understand who I was beyond just being a jock.</p>
<p>Punchline ... teacher evaluations certainly have many flaws but they are a prime vehicle to get to know the student as an individual.</p>
<p>Ugh!!!</p>
<p>The personal recommendation process is built to fail.</p>
<p>As seen from the posts in this thread, going to the guidance counselor could be fruitless because of student/counselor ratio. Ideally, applicants should seek out a teacher (from whom one has earned a superior grade or evaluation). My guess is that more often than not a favorite teacher can produce a more thorough assessment than a guidance counselor.</p>
<p>Also, one bit of good advice given to me back in the day was to never agree to a confidential reommendation. An honest and candid writer of a recommendation will share a copy of it with the candidate. If the writer says no, well then you know that it's best to look to someone else for your recommendation.</p>
<p>The letter of recommendation process is a problem where the college admissions offices and a few high school principals stick their head in the sand.</p>