USC or UNC?

[pierre0913]

<p>Raleigh is the 48th biggest city in the US in terms of population. It has more people that Honolulu, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Buffalo</p>

[IBclass06]

<p>

@sfgiants

The two schools are very comparable academically, USC is 27th on US News and UNC is 30th, essentially a tie.

This is one of the few instances in which I disagree with USNWR. UNC outranks USC in virtually every field and has a higher peer assessment score to boot. USC has been hit hard by the economy and, without state funding to fall back on, has been hit harder than UNC (e.g. eliminating its German department). </p>

<p>UNC is considerably stronger than USC in economics and business, the fields in which the OP is interested.</p>

<p>I’ll admit that the difference in academics is not major enough to be a deciding factor, however. </p>

<p>

@thesecrtaznman

Based on my observations, I feel that USC is a school that’s climbing up and is popular with the younger crowd, whereas UNC is more popular with the older crowd.

Er…no.</p>

<p>

@menloparkmom

USC, which has the largest Financial Aid program of any college in the US

What makes it the largest, I wonder? Several colleges have more students on financial aid, including its neighbor UCLA. It’s not the largest in terms of “most comprehensive,” because there are certainly universities with better financial aid. </p>

<p>

@menloparkmom

I will also in closing mention that UNC, and N Carolina in general, is also a LOT more politically conservative than LA and Calif, if that might be a factor.

Have you visited? UNC is extemely liberal, as is the Triangle area in general, for that matter. As just two examples, Carrboro, Chapel Hill, and Durham passed resolutions supporting same-sex marriage, and UNC students rushed Franklin Street after the election of Obama.</p>

<p>Jesse Helms famously asked why build a zoo when one could put a fence around Chapel Hill. :D</p>

<p>

@sfgiants

On that note, it is an admittedly unscientific poll, but USC placed on Priceton Review’s Top-10 Dream Schools list

It’s worth noting that USC’s yield is only 35%, which is nowhere near the top 10 highest yields. An interesting poll, but I would hesitate to draw any sort of conclusions from it.</p>

<p>UNC’s OOS yield has consistently hovered around 30% (as high as 33%), which I suspect is on par with or slightly higher than USC’s OOS yield.</p>

<p>

@thesecrtaznman

I feel like UNC is more of a once in a lifetime experience, but SoCal would always be there.

Precisely.</p>

[tsdad]

<p>Population does not necessarily make for a big city. In terms of interesting things to do in a state capitol it is right up there with Trenton. Chapel Hill is much more exciting than Raleigh.</p>

<p>As to the choice between the two schools: my wife and I went to UNC for grad school where we met. Our son was accepted there but went to USC because he was accepted to the film school. Had it not been for that he probably would have gone to Carolina because of the cost and because it was much closer to us since we lived in Virginia at the time. </p>

<p>If neither is a real issue, I suggest OP go to USC since it is so far away from and so different than Connecticut. It will be a great learning experience. And, btw, forget the rich snobby image which I’m guessing you think may have to do with USC. See this: [Exploring</a> the Myth of Privilege](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/11925.html]Exploring”>http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/11925.html). USC does have large numbers of students on Pell and other type of income-related grants and loans.</p>

[B_Man_22]

<p>USC is better for business, btw.</p>

[pierre0913]

<p>OK so I know rankings don’t mean anything but I will bring them up here:</p>

<p>US News Business Rankings:</p>

<h1>6 UNC</h1>

<h1>10 USC</h1>

<p>BusinessWeek Rankings</p>

<h1>13 UNC</h1>

<h1>21 USC</h1>

<p>Hardest Working Students (BusinessWeek)</p>

<h1>6 UNC</h1>

<h1>25 USC</h1>

<p>Best place to find an internship</p>

<h1>24 USC</h1>

<h1>31 UNC</h1>

[tsdad]

<p>IB</p>

<p>You’re making this stuff up. The German Department was cut because few students wanted to take German. The courses where moved to other departments so they mostly still exist. From the Chronicle of Higher Education dated April 25, 2008:</p>

<p>

Administrators at the university cast the decision as a pragmatic response to declining enrollments (USC awarded five undergraduate degrees in German in 2007) and a dwindling staff (only two full-time professors remain).</p>

<p>Howard Gillman, dean of the university’s College of Letters, Arts and Sciences, said the move was a step toward a campuswide discussion about the future of the university’s foreign-language programs. He added that German had been one of the university’s few remaining stand-alone language departments. Many other language and culture programs, including East Asian languages, share departments.

</p>

<p>As for UNC’s funding, take a look at this:</p>

<p>[UNC</a> General Alumni Association :: UNC Awaits Budget Action; Double-Digit Cuts Possible](<a href=“Carolina Alumni”>UNC Awaits Budget Action; Double-Digit Cuts Possible - Carolina Alumni) What evidence do you have that USC, one of the most successful schools in the US in fund raising, is having financial problems?</p>

<p>As for the business schools, both were tied for 20th in the graduate school rankings: [Rankings</a> - Best Business Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/rankings). What is really important though is you should choose the business school based on what part of the country you want to work in.</p>

[IBclass06]

<p>

@tsdad

and a dwindling staff (only two full-time professors remain).

And we wonder why…</p>

<p>

But the reason the department is small is that the university last approved a faculty search in German in 1991, and simply let positions go unfilled as professors retired.</p>

<p>[News:</a> Das Ende for German at USC - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/11/german]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/11/german)

</p>

[IBclass06]

<p>

@tsdad

USC does have large numbers of students on Pell and other type of income-related grants and loans.

UNC
Pell Grants: 2598
Enrollment: 16722
Percentage: 15.5%</p>

<p>USC
Pell Grants: 2676
Enrollment: 16384
Percentage: 16.3%</p>

<p>[Postsecondary</a> Education Opportunity](<a href=“http://www.postsecondary.org/commondetail.asp?id=1629]Postsecondary”>http://www.postsecondary.org/commondetail.asp?id=1629)</p>

<p>It is worth noting that the percentage of Pell Grants has gone up very slightly at UNC and drastically down at USC. </p>

<p>[Disappointing</a> Progress in Enrollments of Low-Income Students at America’s Most Selective Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/features/61_lowincome.html]Disappointing”>Disappointing Progress in Enrollments of Low-Income Students at America’s Most Selective Colleges and Universities)</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

I’ve gotten in contact with the fraternities at both universities. UNC’s chapter is about 50 people, whereas USC’s chapter is about 120. UNC’s chapter seems pretty quiet whereas the USC chapter is very noticeable. USC’s chapter dues are also expensive. But on the plus side, USC’s chapter has more side which equals more connections after school. Plus they have a number of famous alumni from their chapter.

</p>

<p>Which fraternity are you in? I’m a current UNC student, so I could fill you in on your frat’s rep at UNC.</p>

<p>And in my biased opinion, I would choose UNC. It really is a once in a lifetime experience, something that is difficult to put entirely into words. UNC’s business school is also a little bit better than USC’s, if that means anything to you.</p>

[tsdad]

<p>For 2008-2009:

More than 24% of the entering freshman class
received a merit-based scholarship from USC. Over
60% received need-based financial assistance.

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Granted some of the need based aid could be loans.</p>

<p>This is getting silly, and I’m not sure that it is helpful to the OP who has his/her own set of criteria. The OP can’t go wrong with either school.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>Originally Posted by sfgiants
The two schools are very comparable academically, USC is 27th on US News and UNC is 30th, essentially a tie.</p>

<p>Originally posted by IBclass06
This is one of the few instances in which I disagree with USNWR. UNC outranks USC in virtually every field and has a higher peer assessment score to boot. USC has been hit hard by the economy and, without state funding to fall back on, has been hit harder than UNC (e.g. eliminating its German department).</p>

<p>Well Michigan outranks quite a few schools that are listed above it at USNWR in virtually every field and has a higher peer assessment score to boot as well. Can you see why we U-M supporters are frustrated with it’s ranking at USNWR?</p>

[ring_of_fire_1]

<p>Michigan’s alumni giving, financial resources for students and selectivity are dreadful though…that is what is keeping it from being a top 25 university.</p>

[IBclass06]

<p>

@rjkofnovi

Well Michigan outranks quite a few schools that are listed above it at USNWR in virtually every field and has a higher peer assessment score to boot as well. Can you see why we U-M supporters are frustrated with it’s ranking at USNWR?

I’m certainly not going to disagree with you. I noted in another thread that Berkeley and Michigan have a claim to top 15 status.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062096759-post1630.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062096759-post1630.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[barrons]

<p>Michigan raises more money than all but a relative few schools. Percentages for state schools are silly as most of the alums paid taxes in the state both before and after graduation. They give every year but it does not count. And UM is probably as selective now as many of the Ivy schools were not all that long ago. No school with 27,000 or so undergrads will ever be as selective as one with 6,000. Things just don’t work that way.</p>

<p>TOP FUND-RAISING INSTITUTIONS, 2007-8</p>

<p>Percentage change in amount raised from 2006-7 to 2007-8 Percentage change in amount raised from 2002-3 to 2007-8

1. Stanford U. $785,042,846 -5.7% +61.5%
2. Harvard U. $650,625,000 +6.0% +17.1%
3. Columbia U. $495,106,753 +16.8% +75.9%
4. Yale U. $486,610,483 +24.4% +119.1%
5. U. of Pennsylvania $475,957,652 +21.3% +19.1%
6. U. of California at Los Angeles $456,654,332 +25.2% +42.9%
7. Johns Hopkins U. $448,964,324 +4.3% +40.5%
8. U. of Wisconsin at Madison $410,227,266 +26.1% +43.0%
9. Cornell U. $409,422,892 +0.6% +29.1%
10. U. of Southern California $409,183,101 -12.9% +33.7%
11. Indiana U. system $408,620,812 +46.7% +63.5%
12. New York U. $387,608,993 +34.8% +86.4%
13. Duke U. $385,672,922 +3.6% +29.9%
14. U. of California at San Francisco $366,068,018 +45.3% +62.3%
15. U. of Michigan system $333,445,185 +13.6% +81.3%
16. Massachusetts Institute of Technology $311,902,992 -5.2% +62.9%
17. U. of Minnesota system $307,609,387 +6.5% +25.6%
18. U. of Washington $302,770,825 +0.9% -2.7%
19. U. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill $292,389,028 +18.4% +78.7%
20. U. of California at Berkeley $285,346,548 +17.6% +49.6%
    SOURCE: Council for Aid to Education</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>Depending on the cost difference and your financial situation, it may make more sense to go to UNC. The budgeted cost is almost always less than what you actually would incur and everything is just more pricey in So Cal. One of my former coworkers moved from Austin last year, got a 30% bump in salary, and still has less savings. He made 42K or so in Austin and was comfortable; he makes over 60K and complains about saving too little. He moved solely because of his girlfriend who is a graphic designer in the entertainment industry.</p>

<p>LA is one of those places where people either love it or hate it. I moved from LA to DC and don’t miss LA at all. I absolutely love DC. When I asked if how people like their cities, I definite got more positive and enthusiastic responses from those in DC. Basically LA has beaches and weather-what the nature gives us. But if you don’t have the money to live by one of those beaches, you probably wouldn’t get to any of them as much as you may think cos it’s a hassle to get there and try to find a parking unless you want to pay the parking fee of $10 or whatever each time just to see the water. Traffic is bad yet you have to drive everywhere; the city is ugly with very random architecture, strip malls and gas stations everywhere; people are less friendly and courteous than those in most other places; menloparkmom mentioned how people care less about your family background or what colleges you graduated from (the population is below average in education level though) than those in the east coast but on the other hand, people in LA seem to be more image concious–they care about what people wear and drive. Many aren’t shy to show off. Hollywood is there after all.</p>

[sfgiants]

<p>

This is one of the few instances in which I disagree with USNWR. UNC outranks USC in virtually every field and has a higher peer assessment score to boot. USC has been hit hard by the economy and, without state funding to fall back on, has been hit harder than UNC (e.g. eliminating its German department).</p>

<p>UNC is considerably stronger than USC in economics and business, the fields in which the OP is interested.</p>

<p>I’ll admit that the difference in academics is not major enough to be a deciding factor, however.

</p>

<p>USC is more selective than UNC (lower admit rate, higher SAT’s), and PA scores are a lagging indicator. USC’s PA has been rising rapidly and it will continue to rise for the foreseeable future. I seem to recall UNC being on the upper teens in overall US News (although I am not confident in this) many years ago and the ranking has slowly gone down. On the other hand, USC’s ranking has skyrocketed and will probably enter the top-25 soon.</p>

<p>With regard to finances, I think you have it backwards. USC does NOT rely on state funding, which means it is independent of California budget cuts. USC has increased its financial aid budget 8% this year and is in a much healthier economic position than many of its peers. At the end of 2008, the last year that final figures are available, USC’s endowment was 3.59 billion and UNC’s endowment was 2.36 billion. <a href=“http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/NES2008PublicTable-AllInstitutionsByFY08MarketValue.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/NES2008PublicTable-AllInstitutionsByFY08MarketValue.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>On the business side, USC-Marshall is wayyy more respected than UNC- Kenan Flager in Southern California. You run into Trojans everywhere you go, and they have a large presence at every level of business at the majority of firms in Southern California. This massive network of Trojans helps immeasurably in succeeding in business. On the East Cost the opposite is true in UNC’s favor, but if the OP wants to settle on the West Coast then the appropriate measure is prestige in SoCal. While Southern California will “always be there,” it will not be the same if you are not part of the Trojan Family. FIGHT ON!</p>

[Selk21]

<p>Coming from a MA resident who transferred to USC, I’d say if you plan on living on the west coast post graduation, then you best chances are with USC. 70% of alumni from USC are in CA. One of the ibanks told our business club that 50 % of their new hires in CA are from USC. USC and UNC are pretty much on par with each other, saying one is better than the other is making a mountain out of an ant hill. So you’re going to get the same sort of opportunities from both schools, you’ll just have more east coast networking from UNC and west coast from USC. I don’t know about UNC, but at USC we get a few good acts provides by the school. The Fray preformed the year before I got there, we had Gym Class Heros this year. I think we had HelloGoodbye at the beginning of the year. Frats have acts sometimes. AEPi and Delta Chi were going to join up to get Nas but it fell through, TKE had Bone Thugs n Harmony. USC has the beach and mountains close-by. USC is known as the U of Spoiled Children, but we also have one of the highest community service hours totals by a university. As a type b student UNC is likely going to be a lot more laid back than USC. LA is a busy place with people always on the move, there will be options though for you to chill in LA. But as a east coast kid, I hate west coast cities. I grew up in London and it is a lot closer to a Boston/NYC type city than LA is to Boston/NYC. Even if Raleigh is smaller it’s going to feel much more like cities on the east coast than LA. </p>

<p>Ultimately I think that your long-term goals will be easier to obtain by going to USC. However if it feels like UNC is right then go there. It sounds like what you want in a school is UNC, but want you want in life is close to USC. You already have everything done for UNC, and if it is going to be much cheaper then all the more reason to stay with UNC. It will require more work on your part to find jobs in LA post grad, but you can always apply for internships in LA/SF over the summer and build your own connections in CA that way.</p>

[barrons]

<p>I can see no real reason not to go to UNC.</p>

[thesecrtaznman]

<p>wow, you guys have all been extremely insightful. Here are some answers to your responses:</p>

<p>In response to Cuse: I’m in Sigma Chi. I’m coming from a university with a very small Sigma Chi chapter.</p>

<p>So i was thinking about my financing situation and there actually is something to look at.
UNC, USC, and my previous institution all gave me financial aid awards based on need. Here are the results of them (without saying the exact amounts):</p>

<p>UNC, a public school, gave me a larger grant that USC, but less than my previous institution
-(in order of largest grant): My previous institution gave me $7,000 more than UNC, and UNC gave me $1,500 more than USC</p>

<p>-My previous institution (private) and USC both gave me around the same amount in loans (within $1,000 of each other), whereas UNC gave me around 1/3 of what USC gave me in loans.</p>

<p>-USC and my previous institution gave me a federal work study, which is very nice.</p>

<p>In terms of total cost: UNC is the cheapest, USC is the most expensive
In terms of loans: UNC gave me the least, my previous institution gave me the most
In terms of grants: my previous institution gave me the most, USC gave me the least.</p>

<p>I’m saving about 15,000 if I go to UNC over my previous institution. USC is more than that, so obviously that’s saying something.</p>

[sfgiants]

<p>For what it’s worth, Sigma Chi is a top house at USC and girls throw themselves at you. They do exchanges with the top sororities. No I am not a Sigma Chi.</p>