USMC through USMMA

<p>You go ZONK.... my thoughts precisely.</p>

<p>Double Kudos to Zonk!!! Love the link. I think it fits Oliver to a tee.</p>

<p>leadership is what you make it. 14 traits, right oli?</p>

<p>Great leaders come from all walks of life (and schools). It's all about attitude.</p>

<p>Zonker - Sorry, i've been out dealing with funerals, my apologies for people dying. As for being around, I answer a few PM's a week, I don't post if I don't have knowledge about the current incoming procedures which seem to be the bulk of the recent threads. </p>

<p>As for Me being Oli's alter, this is not the case. I've got a pretty good feeling that oliver is his first name and he is affilialted with the corp. I am not part of the corp. </p>

<p>I bring the truth and nothing more. You can do what you want with it. You can disregard it for all I care but to let you in on a little secret...many people DO care what I have to say. </p>

<p>Who's gonna tell me who the graduation speaker is this year?</p>

<p>Admiral James G. Stavridis US</a> Navy Biographies - ADMIRAL JAMES G. STAVRIDIS is the speaker this year at graduation :)</p>

<p>Yup, DA. And I always appreciate your sharing your knowledge. It's tough going through losses, but important for those who remain.</p>

<p>thanks suz</p>

<p>Sorry for the delay...I am not DA's alter ego. We are probably 20 years apart though and are both USMMA grads. I fled the Zoo in the '80s, sailed for a few years, worked in shipping, spent some time overseas, then spent some time on Active Duty! Now I am a glorified Capitan in the United States Navy. Wow..big deal..I have spent alot of time in cammies (hence oliver drab)...now we wear digital cammies in three colors (all beige). I served alongside the MC in the (amphib community) and have directly observed probably six KP 2nd and 1st LT's in action. All mediocre Marines.</p>

<p>KP is a good school and I am proud to be a graduate. However, the quality of the grads is starting to go downhill fast.</p>

<p>KP was set up to be a maritime academy and has done an awful job in trying to morph into something else. Mr. Connaughton has done a wonderful job in re-focusing KP by requiring grads to sail. There was an article from a magazine published in the UK that read: Officer pays a $120,000 penalty
Fairplay - May 16, 2008
NEWLY-TRAINED US officers who try to escape sea duty can face dire penalties. One graduate had to write a $120,000 cheque to repay his government-sponsored education at the famous Kings Point academy, while a second was sent to Iraq. These two examples were highlighted at the Council of American Master Mariners conference. The meeting also heard that the 700 or so officers who graduate annually from the US Merchant Marine Academy and the six state academies were too few to meet the growing need for blue-water and brown-water officers. The US Maritime Administrator, Sean T. Connaughton, has halted the system of waivers for graduates to go directly to shore jobs – except for those willing to work in shipyards. “I want them to get their hands dirty,” he told senior captains.</p>

<p>Well, Well...</p>

<p>regards,
Oliver</p>

<p>
[quote]
while a second was sent to Iraq.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have a real problem with those being 'punished' by requiring them to go active duty military. Not what we are looking for in the officer's corps, I think.</p>

<p>Concur...but I don't know that the article is entirely accurate in that respect.</p>

<p>Regards,</p>

<p>"The meeting also heard that the 700 or so officers who graduate annually from the US Merchant Marine Academy and the six state academies were too few to meet the growing need for blue-water and brown-water officers."</p>

<p>So...more than that quit or die each year? When I sat in the union halls I was competing against professional 3rds. Men who were 50-60yo and never attempted to upgrade yet took away jobs from the new graduates. </p>

<p>Where the hell are all these jobs? I felt I was forced into taking my $40k year shoreside job due to not finding water work. Maybe times have changed in three years.</p>

<p>Oliver,
Can you list anything specific that made them mediocre so i may be able to avoid these mistakes?
Thanks,
Kemp</p>

<p>Most of the jobs now are brown water, thing is most grads don't want to fill them.</p>

<p>well why would they want to fill those slots? we're overqualified for tugs and things of that nature. it's kind of irritating that they're pushing KP grads to do jobs that we shouldn't have to take when we're capable of doing bigger things.</p>

<p>Kemp,
not "mistakes", just square pegs in round holes....look, if you want to be an infantry, artillery or armor officer go to a school where you can learn how to do that and be more competitive in the service. VMI, Citadel, West Point or Annapolis have far better programs for students that want to be a military officers than Kings Point. You'll be much more successful!! </p>

<p>If you want to drive ships, operate power plants, be a marine engineer or naval architect..the maritime schools are the best in the world...they even produce pretty good naval officers..I know, I am one..I've had an executive oficer tour, two command tours, and am serving as a chief staff officer now...more KP grads are going on active duty now than ever. Guess where their doing the best professionally? The Navy and the Coast Guard.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>ok thanx for the advice....ill look more into USNA and VMI</p>

<p>I was accepted there on an Army ROTC scholarship..I grew up in the mid-west and could not afford college..Had my heart set on the Coast Guard Academy, but enrollment was cut that particular year. I was appointed to KP and accepted, then had to subsequently turn down an alternate to Annapolis.</p>

<p>In that late to mid 80's you could not by a sailing job, so i went SWO on active duty. Have not looked back since!!</p>

<p>Suggest you not look back either+!!</p>

<p>Regards,
Oliver</p>

<p>Exactly...why study and pass for an unlimited 3rd's license to sail tugs and barges? That's f'ing stupid. I know alot of people working the Staten Island ferry boats...wow, that's really putting that license to use. I'm sure that counts for zero days towards an upgrade...which according to the commitment is implied as something to strive for.</p>

<p>In the late 80's the Marines had a significant review of it's officer groups and their promotion history. The most glaring fact was that the officers entering the Marine Corps from the USNA had the lowest promotion rates of all groups entering the Marine Corps, to include NROTC,PLC & OCS. It was traced back to the fact that the leadership training and physical fitness requirements at the Naval Academy did not adequately prepare or inform those seeking a commission in the Marine Corps with what would be required of them once they received a commision as a Marine Officer. Some of the best Marine Officers I ever met were Naval Academy grads as were some of the worst. Many joined the Marine Corps for the opportunity to fly since flight spots out the USNA are very competitive. The Marine orientation at that time was 5 days at TBS where the middies would go on short hikes in sneakers and see demonstrations and eat at the officer mess hall. They did not go through the hell that is OCS where 50% of the class doesn't graduate. They did not even have to take the Marine Physical fitness test. That has now changed as all academy graduates who desire to become Marine Officers must graduate from OCS first and are also advised at the Academy of the leadership demands and physical requirements before they can become a Marine Officer. That has turned things around and now Naval Academy graduates are as competitve as their fellow Officers sourced through different programs. History has shown that attending the Naval Academy alone was a detriment to the career of a Marine Officer prior to the changes that were made in the mid 90's. Therefore the leadership training gained at the Naval Academy appears to have no impact on the career of a Marine.</p>

<p>"Therefore the leadership training gained at the Naval Academy appears to have no impact on the career of a Marine." So true!!!...especially since Art Athens started there...for those of your who don't know who Art Athens is, he is another KP failure story KP...an absentee former US Merchant Marine Academy Commandant..who learned all he ever needed to know on the lacrosse field...3 or 4 years at KP, and hardly spent any time at the job and really gun decked the who program by degrading the leadership training at USMMA. They had a pretty good program going under Dave Mund before he got there. semper fi...he now holds the mysterious chair of leadership and ethics at the Naval Academy...</p>

<p>oliver drab</p>