<p>My highschool NJROTC CO (a retired Navy LCDR) keeps suggesting that I check out USMMA. I've politely told her I prefer to apply for USNA c/o 2013, but she has asked me to at least look into USMMA c/o 2013. </p>
<p>I'd like to ask any of you who chose USMMA instead of USNA what helped make up your mind? Besides the 3rd class license you get when you graduate, if you want to have a long career in the Navy, why would a person choose USMMA instead of USNA? I'm trying to be open-minded now.</p>
<p>I'll let the Midshipmen answer you in more detail, but basically, my son choose KP because of one thing.....OPTIONS. </p>
<p>From Kings Point you can take a commission in the Navy, Army, Airforce, Coast Guard or NOAA or you can choose to go in the commercial fleet and make the big bucks.</p>
<p>The other appealing thing is that if you want a specific Navy school for instance, flight, you have a better chance out of KP because the classes there are smaller and KP gets the same number of flight spots for its graduates as NA does but there is less competition. The current and past midshipmen can enlighten you more :)</p>
<p>Your NROTC teacher is correct in telling you to look at your options. My son was gung ho Naval Academy until he was given the same advise by a friend..."take a look at KP." He's glad he chose KP and feels it's the best decision he's made. Of course, everyone must find the right fit, and I wish you luck, but remember, at the age of 17 or 18 it is impossible for you to know what you want to do the rest of your life, so keep your options open!</p>
<p>i'm sure you'll be getting something from USNA69 on this since navy flight was mentioned, so i'll nip it in the bud, BOTH ARE GREAT SCHOOLS. </p>
<p>i fully intend to spend my career in the Navy and no, i do not intend to fly. here's the deal with KP. it gives you practical skills and on the job experience that you will not find at any other academy. for example, a lot of people that go for flight (if that's what you're looking at) choose engineering for the aeronautical minor that's available. anyways, as an engineer your main focus is on shipboard engineering, however, the principals are universal. i still have a lot to learn and i will be the first to admit that i am not a stellar engineer, but through sea year (a KP-only--as far as federal academies go-- experience) i learned so much about how things work, why things are built the way they are, how to fix problems with no immediate solutions, etc... that you could throw any one of a thousand issues at me now and i could find a solution somehow. my USNA Blue and Gold Officer, who is the one that actually nudged me from being hardcore Annapolis to going to kings point said this, "if you look at a USNA student, if something goes wrong, they feel the need to have the best equipment to fix the problem. a kings pointer can fix the same problem with duct tape and bailing wire." and he IS a USNA alum, and retired as a USMC Colonel.
bottom line as far as that goes is, we can learn quicker, and have more experience than most of our counterparts at the other academies. </p>
<p>I AM IN NO WAY DISCREDITING THE OTHER ACADEMIES! </p>
<p>every sailor (enlisted) that i've talked to that spent their days in the engine room said that the USNA grad officers they had were totally clueless in the engine room. they've never been exposed to it, so it's logical. as kings pointers, prior to graduation you spend a full year out at sea, working as a crewmember, not as a shadow. in the engine room on a navy ship, a kings pointer will need a few days to become aquainted with the plant, not having someone walk them through, holding their hand. we're competent and we know it. </p>
<p>that's what our school motto is all about "ACTA NON VERBA"
Deeds, not words.
we might not be the most eloquent bunch, but when it comes to the grind, we do what needs to be done to get the job done. period. </p>
<p>the reason i keep speaking about the engine side is because that's what i know. the deck side has a totally separate set of competencies that you must learn at school and at sea. </p>
<p>regardless of your major, you can go into the navy as an ENS in any billet that you're eligible for (e.g. you need to be ABET accredited to go into SEABEES). KP grads typically do very well for themselves in the Navy.</p>
<p>on top of that, if you decide you don't want to go active duty Navy, you don't have to! some people fall in love with the sea and decide to sail on their merchant licenses. another KP benefit is that if you choose to go active duty, you can choose ANY branch of service.
as an example of this: from the class of 2007, here's a breakdown of a few of my close friends that went active
Chris- US Army (Intel); Elizabeth-- US Marine Corps; Mark-- US Marine Corps (infantry); Josh--US Navy (Aviator); Tom-- US Navy (Aviator); Sarah--US Navy (Aviator); Joey-- US Coast Guard; Tyler--US Navy (SEAL); Kent--US Navy (SEAL); Alicia-- US Air Force (Navigator)
the list goes on and on... but as you can see i had great friends that went into just about every community, that list only names a few...</p>
<p>basically, you've got more options out of here than anywhere else, bar none.
and while i would argue to say we have the hardest course load of any school anywhere, you won't find a more unified student body anywhere. that, combined with the fact that EVERY single friend of mine at USNA hates life now, make me see it as an easy choice. </p>
<p>either way, the choice is yours to make. not your parents, not your JROTC CO. if you don't want to work harder than you've ever worked, and don't want the stress and hassle of this place, then do yourself a favor and go elsewhere. this place is not for the faint of heart. you have to get up ready to fight every morning. i like being part of the KP family, but had i any idea how much work it would be before i started, i probably wouldn't be here. i'd be too overwhelmed... but i'm still here and i've come too far to quit.
we're a family here, we all look out for each other, even if we hate each other... bottom line is we're all kings pointers--we're all on the same team. </p>
<p>i'm not trying to discourage you from coming here, i'm just giving it to you straight. this place is not easy. that's why i want to stress that you have to make sure that YOU want it, not to please someone else, but for yourself! you have to be willing to push through when you want nothing more than to throw in the towel. </p>
<p>with that, i wish you the best of luck in your Academics. in the words of my beloved father "give 'em hell"</p>
<p>Ahhh... another one of these... I just can't wait for the flame wars to begin...
So I guess I'll start them...
When you look at any of the academies, you have to know what you want when you graduate...
do you want to be an AF officer? go USAFA.
do you want to be an Army officer? go USMA
do you want to be a Coast Guard officer? go USCGA
do you want to be a Navy officer? go USNA
do you want to be competent? go USMMA</p>
<p>seriously though... For the question of USNA or USMMA, its a coin flip. Personally, I choose KP over USNA because I had options. I was sort of sure I wanted to be in the Navy, but I wasn't positive. Kings Point has given me outs if I decide I don't like the unrestricted line Navy, (and a lot of them at that). USMMA also has sea year, which has been probably the best experience of my life... all 20 years of it.</p>
<p>However, Annapolis has its upsides as well, name recognition, larger class size, a variety of liberal arts majors (not that its a liberal arts school, but you can't get a political science or history major at KP).</p>
<p>Plus the mentalities are different. At Annapolis, you have an excessive amount of leadership and honor training, people will get on each others backs about regs and they often will tell clean stories and jokes to each other. At Kings Point, you have people telling sea stories about how many... women of ill-repute... they... encountered... at sea, and have amusing stories about the wonders of Orchard Towers in Singapore. <em>cough</em>. Kings Point is also much smaller, and you form tighter personal bonds and are not going to get on someones back about the regulations at the school.</p>
<p>In the end, as I've said many times, Annapolis graduates officers, Kings Point graduates sailors.</p>
<p>I'd like to conclude with a link, but I'm not sure what it is yet, so I'll be back...</p>
<p>well, as I mentioned in my OP, I am 200% sure I want to go Navy, and I'd like to go aviation, but even so, my NJROTC CO was really insistent that I look at USMMA. Tonight was our annual NJROTC Change of Command and Award Ceremony, and afterwards, I got to ask her why she likes USMMA so much. Apparently, she taught at USMMA for a while, and she like that it is a small school, and she really like the USMMA Engineering major (I am going NROTC next year as an engineering major and will be applying for a service academy out of my freshman year at my college). She said the "USNA is USNA, but USMMA is something special". Not quite sure what she means by that, but having taught at USMMA might have biased her. She even convinced our Master Chief, so when we are in formation, one or the other of them will stop by and ask me if I've investigated USMMA yet.... so that's what I'm doing now! LOL. She even hit up my dad tonite after the ceremony and told him that if I want to be a "Navy Engineer", USMMA is the place. LOL. the pressure! LOL!</p>
<p>"The other appealing thing is that if you want a specific Navy school for instance, flight, you have a better chance out of KP because the classes there are smaller and KP gets the same number of flight spots for its graduates as NA does but there is less competition."</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Class sizes are not necessarily smaller. I have had numerous classes numbering 25 or more. Besides, how does that affect your chances? There is not logic or reasoning in that comment.</p></li>
<li><p>USMMA does not get the same amount of flight billets as USNA. Many people keep perpetuating this rumor, and simply put it is ignorant to say.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Overall, people who have wanted to fly have faired well. For the class of 2008, I know of one person who did not get a pilot billet, which he wanted, but got a NFO billet instead. Also, if you choose Marine Corps aviation, you are guaranteed a billet, either fixed wing or rotary. Just as mr KPS said, the advantage USMMA has is that it offers many more options that do not exist at the other service academies in terms of flexibility in their commitment. I also agree with his comment that KP graduates more competent sailors than USNA, given our focused curriculum</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also agree with his comment that KP graduates more competent sailors than USNA, given our focused curriculum
[/quote]
if a USMMA grad wanted to sail in the Navy (SWO), they'd still need to go to SWO school just like the USNA grad, right? I mean, the 3rd class license doesn't excuse the USMMA grad from any of the required SWO training, does it?</p>
<p>but even so, would having that 3rd class license help the SWO earn their SWO pin? would it be a little like having a private pilot's license and going into naval aviation? (i mean help a little bit)</p>
<p>no, SWO qualification is completely different from a USCG License. Keep in mind that SWO means surface WARFARE, which we have virtually zero training in. There are overlaps when it comes to seamanship and navigation obviously, but you still have to go through the training. I have heard that KPers may tend to get it quicker than others given that the already have a solid background in ships and seamanship, nav, etc., but i cant really confirm this.</p>
<p>You no longer go to Surface Warfare School to be a SWO, everything you need to learn, you learn on board a navy ship.</p>
<p>Having a 3m license will help you get your OOW qual and SWO pin faster. I have talked to navy COs and XOs around the fleet and they always tell me how glad they are to have KPers as officers because they understand relative motion, navigation law and navigation much better than other JOs coming in.</p>
<p>However, as it has been said before, USNA grads will eventually catch up to the practical competence of KPers and KPers will eventually learn which fork to use first at fancy dinners. It is all a matter of time.</p>
<p>k314sig09 - Sage Advice..KP grads have typically been able to get their SWO pin a little earlier...depends on the individual and his CO's leadership.</p>
<p>If you want to fly airplanes goto the air force, if you want to drive ships, goto kings point or annapolis..</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Disagree a bit here. If you want to fly Air Force airplanes go to the Air Force, if you want to fly Navy/Marine Corps jets then go to USNA or USMMA, and if you have no idea what kind of aircraft you want to fly go to USMMA so you can do any of them.</p>
<p>DSL1990 My advice to you would be this. If you want to be a Navy Officer your first choice should be the Naval Academy. Sorry folks but that school exists for a reason and it is the one of the most prestigious schools of it's kind on the planet. Having said that, since the nominating process is almost identical and you will have already taken the PFA and passed DODMERB, why not apply to USMMA as well? You really have nothing to lose and, let's face it, not everyone who applies to Annapolis is offered an appointment. The process of getting into the academies is long and difficult. The weight of numbers means that all of these schools are forced to turn away well qualified candidates. None of these schools is a "slam dunk" for anyone because admission often depends on factors beyond the prospective student's control. Some congressional districts seem to be more competitive than others and congressmen have a limited number of slots available. Where I live there are a large number of airline pilots, many of whom are USAFA graduates who would like to see there children go to Colorado Springs. This statistical fact
makes admission to the Air Force Academy more competitive than it might ordinarily be. If the Naval Academy appointment does not happen for you I think that you should seriously look at KP as an alternative, provided that you realize that there are only two major fields of study with three majors in each. You can't go there and major in history or international relations. This is a school with a very narrow focus. After you've submitted your applications and you are awaiting a decision you can arrange a visit to KP and see if it is a place you might like to attend. Who knows? You wouldn't be the first person to move KP to the top of their list after spending some time there.</p>
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<p>SWO school still exists. One attends midway through their first tour, usually after achieving OOD.</p>
<p>Hmm...no of the pilots were from KP???</p>
<p>dsl1990:</p>
<p>I chose USMMA over USNA. I was accepted to both, but turned down my appointment to Annapolis for a few reasons. The biggest reason I chose Kings Point was because I intend on becoming an EOD Diver after graduation. At USNA, it would've been very hard to get a spot, there would be more people going for a spot, and I probably would get beat out by a guy. USMMA gets the same amount of pilot spots, dive spots, etc. as the other academies, but since it is smaller in size you have a greater chance of obtaining one of those slots. </p>
<p>Another reason why I chose KP is for the Sea Year. It's a great way to experience first hand what goes on. You get to go to about 20 different countries on all sorts of vessels, both merchant marine and navy.</p>
<p>Lastly, I chose it because I can compete in my two sports (cross country and swimming). I love running and swimming, and doing that in college is something I really wanted to do. </p>
<p>I hope this helps you!</p>
<p>the slots part isn't necessarily true... Annapolis does get significantly more slots than we do, but we don't have as many people interested in those billets. last year 2 guys went for SEAL and only one got the billet. the other eventually got a billet, but he had to bend over backwards to get it.
bottom line is, because the options are so diverse here, our slots for certain billets aren't set in stone. for some of them we have to compete against the ROTC kids. </p>
<p>work hard, do what you can and you should be ok. </p>
<p>yes sea is an awesome experience... just wait... you'll see.</p>
<p>"USMMA gets the same amount of pilot spots, dive spots, etc. as the other academies"</p>
<p>as it has been already stated numerous times, that statement is false. USMMA has no where near the same number of billets as the other service academies. </p>
<p>"You get to go to about 20 different countries on all sorts of vessels, both merchant marine and navy."</p>
<p>i doubt you will get to go to 20. you'll probably get to see 15, and have a chance to get ashore for a respectable time in about 10. also, you are only permitted 30 days max for a navy vessel, which probably will not leave the U.S.</p>
<p>"Lastly, I chose it because I can compete in my two sports (cross country and swimming). I love running and swimming, and doing that in college is something I really wanted to do."</p>
<p>two sports? although it has been done, i think you may want to wait and see how the academics go first. keep in mind if you want to go EOD or something like that the first pre-requisite is to graduate. no one will care how well you do on the SEAL PFT if you cant even graduate</p>