USMMA vs. USNA

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
61

<p>


</p>

<p>Do you even remember what you post before you start talking out of the other side of your mouth?</p>

<p>Where did the MMA grad serving in the active duty US Navy get his leadership training that allowed him to serve his country exactly the same as any other active duty officer? If you are so certain that the USNA is a better place to learn leadership then USMMA, then how can a USMMA grad deliver the exact same leadership service to the US Navy as any other active duty military officer?</p>

<p>:rolleyes:</p>

62

<p>
[quote]
Now I have never heard of a kids reapplying to USNA from USMMA - to accept a nomination and appointment to USMMA would effectively end this young woman's dream to attend USNA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sorry, I have heard of a young man reapplying to USNA from USMMA. He was in my plebe class and my section at KP and reaplied to USNA during our plebe year and was accepted to the class of 2002 at USNA. He completed around 3/4 of our plebe year. I can't remember if he waited for recognition or not. In fact he got himself a nice little leprechaun tattoo on his rear to remember his days at KP, ha.</p>

63

<p>Luigi, just so you don’t actually have to go back and read my posts, here is a summary of what I have stated:</p>

<p>For a candidate intent upon a Naval career, I feel that under many circumstances NROTC, followed by a possible reapplication to USNA might be a better choice than USMMA. Without a doubt, USNA will provide the better preparation for becoming a Naval Officer. Contrary to what LFWB dad and others might think, there is more to being an officer than driving an independently steaming container ship in the middle of the ocean and learning which fork to use.</p>

<p>I feel that MOCs who offer USMMA nominations when USNA nominations are not available are possibly providing an inadvertent disservice to those candidates. The USMMA does a fantastic job training merchant mariners and their curriculum is designed to support that mission. And yes, if a candidate desires to serve his country, attends USMMA, and ultimately ends up as a merchant mariner, I feel that they possibly have ‘sold out’ to their initial dreams.</p>

<p>There are tiers of ‘service’ and those young men and women who sign away at least twelve years of their lives knowing that they will lose most of their personal freedoms and most likely be placed in harm’s way is certainly, in my opinion, on a higher tier than some employee of a Miami cruise ship line. Perhaps one has to have been in the military to understand this, to sign all their personal freedoms away and to go on a mission with definable odds of not returning. There are many outside this attempted PC forum who would consider it an insult that the two were even compared. And yes, suzannegra and jamzmom, those who join the military after graduation from USMMA deserve the exact same amount of respect as those who entered from other sources. I apologize for somehow inadvertently giving the impression that I did not think this true.</p>

<p>Yes, I cannot keep quiet. When a young woman who is highly qualified and has been dreaming of the Naval Academy and the Navy from the age of ten, opinion or an attempt at ‘fact’, I consider the following advice totally irresponsible:</p>

<p>
[quote]
As for going Active duty, there is no better choice than KP.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is so ridiculous that most would find it humorous but there are some young people out there who haven't developed the filters, who may believe it.</p>

64

<p>Gentlemen, I think it's amusing reading the comments back and forth because you have different opinions. It's getting pretty heated. We have some swords, perhaps you would like to challenge each other to a duel to settle the matter!! Or perhaps you can just agree to disagree and respect each other's opinion.</p>

65

<p>KPMOM, Thanks for the offer. However, I have no concerns whatsoever whether or not my principal 'opponents' in this discussion, agree or not. With them, I have agreed to disagree a long time ago. Respecting their opinions is an entirely different matter.</p>

<p>My goal, as always, is just to throw out another pertinent view for candidates and their parents to think about. And with the aforementioned 'opponents', attempt to ensure that they don't misrepresent what I have attempted to state too badly.</p>

66

<p>Hard to misrepresent your clearly-stated opinion that every USMMA graduate who goes to sea is a "sell-out."</p>

<p>You insulted every one of them when you made that statement, and your continued attacks on the service they provide the country continues the pattern of disrespect you've shown to these men and women.</p>

<p>You give no room for any of them to change their mind about why they went to KP, or what their reasons are/were. You lump together ALL of them by using such universal statements, instead of qualifying them as "some" or "a few" or even "most." </p>

<p>You throw out false stats such as the number who go to sea each year, confusing parents and future candidates, completely misrepresenting the service of the US Merchant Marine.</p>

<p>Your "pertinent view and opinions" are just that. They are not facts. They are the biased and slanted "pertinent views and opinons" of a someone who only sees a USNA graduate as worthy, while USMMA is only providing "Miami cruise ship" 3rd mates. </p>

<p>A candidate and his/her parents are not helped by the sweeping negative generalizations you cast toward Kings Point.</p>

67

<p>


</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Here is my source:</p>

<p>United</a> States Merchant Marine Academy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[quote]
On average about 1/3 of each graduating class goes to sea working in the United States Merchant Marine as officers serving on ships in overseas trade, inland & near-coastal transportation, research vessels, and other types of vessels.
- Another 1/3 generally go to work in the maritime industry ashore working in commercial shipping, ship broking, intermodal logistics, marine engineering, maritime law, maritime insurance or defense contracting.
- And, about 1/3 enter the military as Active Duty Commissioned Officers. Of those going on active duty most enter the US Navy as Naval Aviators, Surface Warfare Officers, Submarine Officers or occasionally even as SEALs. Some midshipmen enter the Marine Corps and Coast Guard, while a small number enter the US Army, US Air Force and their National Guard components. Midshipmen may also apply for commissions in the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) with the NOAA Commissioned Corps.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I will challenge you as I did LFWB dad to find something better. Until then, it is the only source which I have been able to locate.</p>

68

<p>Honestly, there are lots of jobs out there where people are "serving" their country. </p>

<p>Is it true that one may attend USMMA, graduate, "serve" in the marine transportation industry for 5 years and fulfill their requirement? Can these same folks be employed by private industry while "serving"? If they are employed by private industry do they not have control over when and how they "serve"?</p>

<p>I am curious how graduates are assigned after graduation - is there a service selection event like at USNA and USMA? What would happen if all graduates chose Army/Air Force/Navy Active duty? </p>

<p>Does everyone get what they want or is it based on merit?</p>

<p>Is it possible for a student to attend KP with the intention of receiving a fighter pilot slot in the Navy and then be told they must serve in the Reserves and work in Marine transportation?</p>

69

<p>This thread makes my head explode. Sometimes the internet isn't the best form of communication, eh?</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
Sometimes the internet isn't the best form of communication, eh?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Online forums have their own customary culture, which is good for people who desire to communicate on online forums to learn.</p>

71

<p>


</p>

<p>Yeah, that's what happens to graduates of the United States Merchant Marine Academy, they wind up disillusioned, inventorying freight, holding a clipboard wishing they were you. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>You really need a reality check about KP and their grads.</p>

<p>But in reality, your latest backhanded put-down doesn't even deserve a response.</p>

<p>You can continue insulting their grads and their service, I'm done.</p>

72

<p>
[quote]
Honestly, there are lots of jobs out there where people are "serving" their country. </p>

<p>Is it true that one may attend USMMA, graduate, "serve" in the marine transportation industry for 5 years and fulfill their requirement? Can these same folks be employed by private industry while "serving"? If they are employed by private industry do they not have control over when and how they "serve"?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>One of the major purposes of USMMA is to maintain the US maritime industry. To sustain this industry one must not only have the people on the ships, but also a number of people shore side for each person on the ship. Therefore, one of the ways to fulfill one's commitment from KP is to get a job working for a maritime company doing any number of things such as architecture, brokerage, insurance, inspection, etc. This is how that person "serves" the maritime industry. With that in mind the person can elect to take whatever job he/she is offered after applying and interviewing with various companies. </p>

<p>This however is only one of three graduation requirements of all KP graduates. The second is to be in the Navy Reserves and the third is to maintain their Coast Guard license. The license and reserve commitments are to sustain a group of people to recall if needed for activation of ships the goverment has on Ready Status.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am curious how graduates are assigned after graduation - is there a service selection event like at USNA and USMA? What would happen if all graduates chose Army/Air Force/Navy Active duty?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is no "service selection." The service selection is performed by the individual person deciding what job they desire. If they want to work shoreside they must apply for a waiver from the Maritime Administrator which is becoming harder and harder to get. For the rest who decide to go the civilian employment route they can either join one of the unions after graduation and get a sailing job or apply with any one of the number of companies who do not use unions for the employment of personnel on their ships (eg SeaRiver).</p>

<p>For those who want to go active duty they talk to the specific service liason on campus and off they go. For some of the programs there are specific requirements, eg USMC. For those who want to go USMC they usually join the Marine Corps Ops program at KP and attend various USMC training during their summers. For those who go USAF, USA, or NOAA they have their own training to go through. For Navy they don't have any additional training, they simply let the staff know what they want and they usually get it. For aviation there is a very high selection rate >90% for those who want it. Otherwise you can select any of the branches (unlike USNA, at KP you can select staff corps positions such as supply, intel, etc). I'm sure if all midshipmen decided to go active duty the services would be ecstatic and I doubt it would be a problem. They might have to figure out who gets what though. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Does everyone get what they want or is it based on merit?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You only get what you want if the company you apply to doesn't like someone else better. I interviewed for two jobs my senior year and received one offer. This does not include the unions. They'll take you if you pay your dues and the books aren't closed at the time. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Is it possible for a student to attend KP with the intention of receiving a fighter pilot slot in the Navy and then be told they must serve in the Reserves and work in Marine transportation?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sure, this is possible if the person doesn't get an aviation slot and they don't want to go SWO, or if they don't medically qualify for an aviation slot. Just like at any of the academies you can have the intention of going flight and then being told "sorry". The difference is that this person could then go work for a year in the civilian sector and then reapply for a slot the next year.</p>

73

<p></p>

<p>Posters and forum readers,</p>

<p>We have received a number of reports about this thread and frankly, the moderating staff (volunteers) are unlikely to be in a position to "clean it up" and contact the sources of the problem posts today. So in order to at least stop the escalation, I am locking the thread, at least temporarily. Perhaps at some point we will be able to address the problem posts and re-open the thread.</p>

<p>A suggestion for a New Year's resolution:
Please, all posters, review the section of the Terms of Service (under FAQ) that relates to courtesy. Points can be made while refraining from insulting or otherwise attacking other posters. Please stay WELL within the guidelines, as a pattern of violations of the TOS can result in a loss of posting privileges.</p>

<p>Thank you for your understanding and, I hope, cooperation.</p>

<p>Best wishes for a happy and peaceful New Year,</p>

<p>-- Mod JEM</p>