<p>The difference between top 10 schools and your UCs is that the top 10 schools do not need “defending”; they let the rankings do the talking.</p>
<p>UCLA, USC and UCB are a joke in terms of getting in. It’s just slightly harder than your average state school but not as competitive as the top 15 National U/Liberal Arts. </p>
<p>Who gives a rip? They are also larger. But their faculty and facilties are as good as nearly any school and better than 99%.</p>
<p>UCB and UCLA are good (graduate) colleges but they are not very difficult to get in.</p>
<p>
Sure…Berkeley ranks #3 for undergrad biz and engineering:
[Best</a> Undergraduate Business Schools | Top Undergraduate Business Programs | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business)
[Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Schools | Top Undergraduate Engineering Programs | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering)</p>
<p>Michigan is 4/7 there, where do you think they should be?</p>
<p>^ Ahead of Notre Dame… ;)</p>
<p>Ah, if not for that wink, I would pull up some rankings of my own.</p>
<p>But I agree that US News does tend to give public schools the shaft.</p>
<p>
Oh, let me guess! The Businessweek ranking that rates Mendoza on top?</p>
<p>And the US News one that puts ND at 4 for quality of undergrad teaching.</p>
<p>Though, overall, I do feel that rankings are crap. Plus, none of those other ones have any more inherent validity than the US News one with ND ahead of UCB and UM anyway.</p>
<p>^ [Best</a> Undergraduate Teaching | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching)</p>
<p>Followed closely by Berkeley at #6 and Miiiiichigan at #8… :)</p>
<p>So, as far as the rankings are concerned at least, Notre Dame is above them for that.</p>
<p>Though how they measure it is beyond me.</p>
<p>Ahh, “The schools on these lists are noted by college administrators as paying a particular focus on undergraduate teaching.” I suppose it’s good that Notre Dame has some good reputation with college administrators, given its bad peer review score.</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Hopkins</li>
</ol>
<p>
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a “bad” peer review score. If I recall correctly, ND’s PA score is around 4 which means survey takers consider its academic programs “strong”. Academics are asked to rate a colleges academic offerings on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being “distinguished” and 1 being “marginal”. Only a few schools can have distinguished academic programs or else they wouldn’t be distinguished.</p>
<p>ND does well in other factors measured by USNWR. ND just lacks distinguished, top academic programs.</p>
<p>is the lsit really coming out in September? why so late this year?</p>
<p>My prediction:</p>
<p>1) Harvard
2) Yale
2) Princeton
4) Columbia
4) MIT
6) Caltech
6) Stanford
7) Chiacgo
8) Penn
9) Duke
10) Dartmouth
12) WUSTL
13) Northwestern
14) Notre Dame
15) Brown
16) Cornell
17) Johns Hopkins
17) Vanderbilt
19) Georgetown
19) Rice
21) Berkeley
22) Emory
23) Carnegie Mellon
24) USC
25) Virginia</p>
<p>… UMich, although better for graduate should stay out of the top 25 (more like top 30) for undergraduate, and so should UCLA. Although they have great programs, part of being in the top 25 is being an elite university, and michigan is not selective AT ALL. And I’m hoping Notre Dame and Georgetown are higher (like above) because they are usually shafted by peer review scores because they are catholic, even though they both (especially ND) have some of the highest yield rates, retention rates, and graduation rates in the country.</p>
<p>What about Boston College? Seems it gets its share of shafting due to its Catholicism.</p>
<p>I am curious, UCB, what constitutes ‘distinction’ in academia? How is it that the Ivies and the other ‘top’ schools seems to have a never ending supply of it, while those that would join their ranks jist kain’t git “distinquished” faculty. Is it set it stone somewhere?</p>
<p>“Although they have great programs, part of being in the top 25 is being an elite university, and michigan is not selective AT ALL.”</p>
<p>You are clueless…</p>
<p>
It’s 3.something, while all the others around it are 4.something. Not bad overall, but bad in context of “top 25.”</p>
<p>“And I’m hoping Notre Dame and Georgetown are higher (like above) because they are usually shafted by peer review scores because they are catholic.”</p>
<p>Did you ever consider that perhaps they are rated as highly as they are now because they are Catholic?</p>
<p>
Directly? Not really, I don’t see why US News would have a pro-Catholic bias.</p>
<p>Indirectly? Sure, if you mean that, as the two top Catholic universities in the country, tons of Catholic students apply, thus making them more selective. But that’s like saying UCLA and UCB are only ranked so high because they’re in California; it’s indirectly true, but kind of irrelevant.</p>