USofC Honors College full ride v. Duke w/ substantial debt?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi all! Very difficult decision for me. I’ll outline both of my options.

University of South Carolina Honors College: The Honors College is the #1 honors college in the country, and if I went there, I would do International Business which is the #1 program in the country as well. However, this is not exactly what I want to study, as USC doesn’t have my major. In fact, I’m pretty uninterested in business but talked to the professor and know that the program will give me the global and graduate school opportunities that I want. The other programs I would do are not very good and it is obvious that they pale in comparison to similar programs at other state schools. I am one of 46 OOS students to receive Top Scholar status. I have almost all expenses covered, a free laptop, a special advisor for national fellowships and scholarships, a faculty mentor, a peer mentor, priority consideration for research and study abroad grants, priority parking, and priority class registration. Many of the Top Scholars I met do wonderful things, winning awards, getting published, travelling. Since I would have no expenses, it means that I could travel whenever I want, enjoy restaurants, and buy nice clothes. The campus is beautiful, the Honors College dorms are fantastic, and I genuinely loved it. However, I’m really concerned that I will not be intellectually challenged here, despite being in the Honors College and having immense further opportunity. There is a huge student body outside of the HC that is not-so-smart. In addition, the Honors College and the Top Scholars are a pretty homogeneous group of upper-middle class over-achievers who can’t fully pay for a more elite institution. There’s no interesting stories, extremely unique perspectives, etc. I’m also worried that I will have to constantly explain myself for the next four years: “Honors College blah blah #1…Top Scholar!..No debt…blah blah.”

Duke: Well, it’s Duke. It is one of the best colleges in the country, and there are immense possibilities with the name. When I posted my acceptance on Snapchat, about 100 people congratulated me…there is immense prestige with getting into and going to Duke. The programs that I am considering doing there (Public Policy, Economics, or International Comparative Studies) are among their best and are definitely more on track with what I want to be doing with my college career. There’s interesting kids from all over the world, unique stories, etc. I’m going to an admitted students’ weekend, which will be my first time touring the campus, but I know that I will love it just by the pictures and talking to some kids I know who go there. Obviously, I will be challenged academically here, but I will also be a “small fish in a big pond.” However, it looks like my family is not going to receive substantial financial aid. Right now, it’s looking like it will be about $15,000 to $25,000 of student loans a year, maybe more, and this would be with me being frugal in budgeting and not really eating out, going home too often, having nice clothes, doing smaller study abroad trips during winter/spring break. I’d definitely have to work in the summers. I am going to work with the financial aid office, and this amount might be reduced.

I am definitely studying abroad junior year, and plan to go to grad school at the Kennedy School of Government, the London School of Economics and Political Science, or Sciences Po in France. I’m just struggling to understand if the opportunities at USC will get me as far as a Duke degree, and if I’ll constantly be regretting going to one school over the other.

2

If you chose HC at USC over Ross business school at U of Michigan, I don’t see that much difference between Duke and U of Mich to change your mind.

3

Pretty sure that was someone else on the South Carolina thread with Michigan lol. I didn’t even apply! @websensation

4

You can’t borrow $15,000 each year on your own. You can only borrow $5,500 for your freshman year, $6,500 for your sophomore year, and $7,500 each for junior and senior years. Who is going to co-sign the extra debt with you?

Do you have any other affordable options that you like better than U of SC Honors? Then take that offer. Duke is unaffordable. You won’t be the only student with a hundred snapchat likes for a Duke acceptance who decides to follow the money elsewhere.

Why did you apply to U of SC Honors if the university doesn’t offer your major? Did your major change since you applied? Are there any related majors that could work for you?

Why are you so convinced that the general populace at U of SC has nothing to offer you? Chances are that some of the diversity you find missing in the Honors bubble will be right outside your door among the students who got in but just happened to miss the Honors cut off for some reason.

5

My parents would co-sign the loans if that was my choice.
I really like USC Honors, don’t get me wrong, maybe even love it. There’s just some glaring problems, as outlined above. Duke and USC are my two top choices. I applied to USC Honors because it sort of had my major; I applied as a Global Studies/International Studies major. USC Honors was a random safety that I wasn’t going to go to until I got Top Scholars.
I didn’t mean that people in the general USC population don’t have things to offer, but it’s not like Duke or Harvard where EVERYONE is smart and did amazing, amazing things and want to talk about Freud or genocide or Nietzsche. I don’t know. I’m conflicted.
@happymomof1

6

Where else have you been accepted? Are any of them more affordable than Duke? Please, please, please do not ask your parents to co-sign anything. Let them save that money for their retirement so you don’t have to support them in their old age. Or if you do end up going that route, make certain all the co-signers hold life and disability insurance policies on each other so that no one is stuck with debt because the other can’t pau or isn’t around anymore to pay.

7

Duke is not affordable. I can assure you that there are many, many students in the same situation who take the money elsewhere. Please don’t be quick to assume that there will not be enough really smart students in the honors college. My family member is there… in the honors college…and loves it. She also applied to Duke.

In my opinion it would be a mistake for your parents to cosign such big loans. How will you feel at Duke if your friends go to dinner… and you can’t? How would you feel if your friends want to move off campus and the rent is a little more money than you can afford? Would you be prepared to find another group to live with? How will you feel if you can’t afford your first choice study abroad program?

Why did you apply to a major that does not interest you? Are there any other majors at USC that would be of greater interest?

I would choose from your affordable options. USC seems to be an amazing opportunity with a lot to offer you. Once you are in college… you will appreciate all of those experiences. Congrats!

One more thing… you will not have to explain your choice for the next four years …because nobody will really ask or care (no sarcasm intended). What WILL you be asked by others when you happen to run into them? You may be asked if you plan to study abroad, you may be asked what your summer plans are, and you may be asked to explain the details of your research.

8

Do you want to be successful by others’ standards or do you want to be happy? Are you willing to possibly sacrifice being able to afford grad. school for the exact major you want? When I was applying, I was up for a full scholarship plus international travel at one school, but they didn’t have my major. If I’d been one of the five to get it, it would have been a tough decision between there and the school I chose, which had my major and an honors program. Look at the benefits of honors. Priority registration is nothing to sneeze at (you’ll learn). If you get waived from gen. eds. or get cool seminars, that’s to be considered as well. Gen. eds on the whole are boring hoops to jump through. The honors program I did came with advanced topics so I took abstract math instead of calculus. Also keep in mind that every village has its idiots. There are plenty of book-smart kids who are dull, un-engaging, obtuse people. You’ll also find kids who had inflated grades in HS, so on paper they’re much smarter than they really are. You can’t jump to conclusions about people either. I have a friend who looks like your average white, middle-class girl; but she’s from a military family and was raised in Alaska and parts of her extended family are Amish. She’s got some interesting perspective.

If I were you, I’d make a weighted pro/con list for each school. You alone can say how important certain aspects are in relation to others. Go into your visit with an open mind and try to be honest with yourself about the impression you’re getting.

9

There are several factors at play here:

  1. The primary reason for college is to prepare you for your career of choice. If you want to be a X, then go to a school that specializes in training Xs. Don’t attend a school that manufactures Zs if that’s not what you want to be . . . even if it’s free.
  1. Your goal of graduation is closely related to your happiness. Swim with the current, not against it.
  2. Affordability. You'll never escape the gravitational pull of the Earth if you don't have enough fuel. You don't want to end up back home in year #3.
  3. If you've visited and researched all your schools thoroughly and the financial packages are finalized, you should have enough pieces of the puzzle in place to make a logical decision. Conversely, if your university research is incomplete, you could be left with a clutter of questions and uncertainty.

Good Luck.

10

I think that you under estimate your peers at USCarolina Honor’s Program, as well as the rest of the students there. However, I understand that you are feeling angst over whether Duke is a better path toward your ultimate education and career goals. If you choose Duke, make sure that you are willing to delay grad school so that you can work and make some headway into the loans. You may need to live at home to keep expenses down. And do everything you can to work during the school year and in the summers/breaks. Realistically, what is the lowest that you can keep the loans? Not just years 1 and 2, but 3 and 4 too. Does Duke offer university sponsored loans? They are typically at a lower interest rate than the private loans. What other ways can you earn money? Can you work towards being a residence assistant so that you can get housing stipends to cut your debt. I had a family member who babysat in the nearby community and earned enough every year to cover over $12k of room and board. The advice on life insurance is spot on.

11

You consider what clothes you can buy to be a significant factor in this decision ?

12

OP right now you are a senior… I get it. Everybody is discussing where they are going and you are looking at Duke through rose colored glasses. Duke is a GREAT school… but not all students who attend sit under a tree discussing anthropology all night, or stay in on Friday nights discussing sexual harassment in the workplace. Some do… while others go out partying… just like at most schools. If you attend Duke, the rose colored glasses will eventually come off once reality sets in… and you don’t have the money that others may have… or you don’t get that cool research position… the one you really wanted… because the PI took 5 students… and you were number 6.

Fast forward a year and you are at USC. Guess what? You will likely get your top research choice. You will likely have the money to live where you want to live, and travel to a cool study abroad program and get funding for research. And… there will be plenty of smart kids who share your interests. Doesn’t sound so bad to me.

As I mentioned earlier… that will be the conversation that is brought up when you are home on break and run into acquaintances at the supermarket. I promise you that once you are in college… nobody will be asking you to explain why you gave up Duke.

13

I’m really interested in fashion…I was going to be a fashion designer before I decided on something a bit more academic. It’s a huge hobby for me and something I really enjoy, and it’s one of the things that I wrote about and that got me into college. I’m on the artsy side. I am by no means aiming towards designer clothes, but I do enjoy shopping and styling outfits and I save a lot of my personal money for nicer pieces. Sounds trivial and silly, I know, but it’s a big part of who I am. It’s no different than an artist buying real art supplies v. Crayola or a baseball player who has to get the cheapest cleats from Amazon instead of nicer ones from Nike. I was also just using clothes as an example of the financial freedom I could have. @Publisher

14

OP, you have no idea right now what an albatross $100K debt is going to be for you. And that sounds like this is the minimum amount. It is very likely that you could be offered summer internships that don’t pay, but that would be great paper for your resume, that you will have to turn down in order to work to pay your bills. You may graduate and be offered great step-stone jobs in a city like D.C. that pay peasant wages that you just can’t afford to take because the cost of living in DC plus the repayment on your loans makes it impossible. These are very real scenarios.

I think you entered into this process without considering costs, and now that you have to face that reality you are surprised/annoyed/dismayed. I get that. You probably didn’t have a lot of guidance. But I hope that you will seriously consider your later loan-paying self when you thing about taking that much debt for the perceived prestige and the likes you received on Snapchat.

15

If you are into fashion, then USC Honors is the better choice.

16

@suzy100 I get what you are saying. But there are a ton of kids at USColumbia who have to pay the 12k instate tuition and 12k room and board with loans. It is not just a Duke level education that results in so much debt. Lots of kids work their way through school for far lesser schools. I"m not advocating the debt over the Top Scholar opportunity but I don’t think that the need to borrow for school presents an unsual situation (though having the really cheap option is unusual, and highly coveted). Many families fall in the “hole” of making too much to qualify for aid, but not enough to afford the laughable EFC.

17

@VAMom23, I totally get you. I and my kids are right there in that spot. They were lucky enough to be admitted to a school that is very very generous with aid such that it’s less expensive to go there than the state flagship. I get it. But we are talking about at least 100K in debt here versus graduating from a school with a nationally recognized Honors College (maybe the best honors college in the nation?) with no debt. I don’t see how to turn that down.

18

I couldn’t agree more. USC is a no-brainer.

MPP programs are not cheap…no need to add hefty undergraduate debt on top of the debt you’ll have from grad school.

19

@suzy100 Yes, I do agree. The large debt is oppressive. So taking it on when you don’t have to is a big choice. And I’ve posted before that if you don’t think you will attend a school you shouldn’t even apply. OP has a ton of other options as well for really good, reduced tuition as well. All of which would provide a solid foundation for grad. school.
But often the need for grad school is really minimized if you have a strong undergraduate degree that opens doors for top careers. Or folks change their minds about what they want to do. I don’t know the field at all though, so I can’t opine on whether that is a consideration.

20

Go with USC, don’t look back. The “smart” kids are not at all the ivy’s or top ### schools, they are all over.

Every one, and I mean every one of the 9 admissions to the ivy league schools from my D’s school this year are full pay athletes, and none are even in the top 20 of the class, not one!

The debt you will incur will be a huge weight on you for many years to come and many of your classmates will also, like you, have chosen the smart choice to not weigh their future down with a mound of debt. That debt will follow you when you go to buy a car, rent/buy a place to live and when you apply for a job, many pull your credit report and all that debt will be there.
I’m not a big fan of the current generation’s attachment to social media and ‘sharing’ but since you did mention your “100 likes” I can see that you are looking at this as more of an ego choice than a serious life choice and all that goes with it. At our school we know who got into where and we also know why they got into where they did…the kids are talking about that too. Since your friends now know that you did get into Duke you can take the smart choice and go to the school that not only thinks you are smart but is betting its money on it by giving it to you. Good luck with your future, the potential is there so grab hold and go!