UT Plan II and Business Honors Program v. Princeton

Parents Corner
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I am an Early Decision Applicant for Princeton, but I was wondering if you guys could help me come to a conclusion as to which other universities to consider. I have a prstats account, and my username is Mahajan. For those of you who do not know how to access my statistics, you can go to the following website (with a <a href="http://www"&gt;www&lt;/a>. in front)</p>

<p>"*************2009/display.php?user=Mahajan"</p>

<p>and my scores should come up. </p>

<p>I am a Texan, so I can secure auto admission into UT and Texas A&M. Right now, if I get rejected from Princeton, I am anxious to apply to the UT Plan II Program and also the UT Business Honors Program. Have you guys heard of these? If so, what is their reputation outside of Texas?</p>

<p>How would you compare those individual programs to the following (even taking money into account...we can pay for good schools, but my parents only want to spend big bucks on Ivies, and say that otherwise I can get a great education at these state schools--which is true):</p>

<p>Duke, Northwestern, University of Pennsylvania, Rice, Columbia, NYU, Dartmouth.</p>

<p>I am specifically asking for evaluations in the field of Business and political science, but anything is welcome. Also, if you can give me any ideas of chances, that would be great too.</p>

<p>Thank you for your time!</p>

2

<p>I haven't heard of Plan II, but I know UT Business was ranked nationally as first in accounting and marketing, and around third as business. You're chances are good.</p>

3

<p>with 72 people and no replies, i'm a bit surprised. has no one ever heard of ut? i was under the impression that it was a solid school, at least in its offering of business.</p>

<p>also, for those of you who have read this, and do not know how to get to pr stats, you type in the website <a href="http://www"&gt;www&lt;/a>. and then prstats and then .com. From there, go to "browse for all users" and the names are arranged alphabetically.</p>

4

<p>I'm applying to the UT Plan II school. It's a decent school, but by no means is it an Ivy League. The reason people go to Plan II is because it's cheap; if you can't afford a Princeton, Plan II is a good alternative. Its Red-Mccombs business school is one of the best undergrad business schools in the nation.</p>

5

<p>mahajan: It is just that most people don't want to do extra work to go look for your stats. (you could have posted them here).</p>

6

<p>Good idea Simba!
This is just copied and pasted from a previous post:</p>

<p>Essays: Not outstanding, but not horrible (hopefully)
Rich Indian kid from Texan suburbs.
SAT I: 1600 (taken May, 2004)</p>

<p>Chemistry: 800
Math IIC: 800
Writing: 750
Writing: 800</p>

<p>Rank: 1/480 for this semester. 5/480 for next semester.</p>

<p>Courseload: I am taking 10 AP tests this year, 5 AP Classes. Will have completed 15 AP Exams by the end of this year. Have already completed 5.</p>

<p>Extracurriculars (not so hot):</p>

<p>Varsity orchestra concertmaster (200 people in program, 70 in class)</p>

<p>Founder of a community service organization, we have played for the town mayor and have been featured once on the news. We then joined a division of the Rotary Club.</p>

<p>Some state UIL solo and ensemble awards, regions awards.</p>

<p>Member of semi-professional symphony orchestra.</p>

<p>Current Events and Issues: have won state twice, have placed in state twice.</p>

<p>Social Studies: have placed in state once, have won state team championships once.</p>

<p>French National Exam: Placed in a range of 6th through 4th in the nation throughout high school.</p>

<p>French Symposium: Won first in some tests for my level, placed in top three in other events.</p>

<p>Student Council: Leadership and Student Attitude Committee, Letterman</p>

<p>Math and Science Club Sophomore Rep</p>

<p>Chess Club Vice President of Politics</p>

<p>With first place school scores, led high school to third place in nation in National Geographic Olympiad.</p>

<p>Business Professionals of America- 1st place Regional Extemp, etc.</p>

<p>Two year member of cross country and track (really bad member!)</p>

<p>Have traveled worldwide and have audited some college classes.</p>

<p>Have taught myself to read Devanagri script.</p>

<p>Wrote movie reviews for local newspaper</p>

<p>Worked at the center for international business studies at large university.</p>

<p>National merit Semi finalist</p>

<p>Fluent in two languages, semi fluent in one.</p>

7

<p>any ideas? how about this:
How would one rank these schools cumulatively in the fields of Business/Economics/Public Policy?:</p>

<p>A. Princeton
B. UT Plan II
C. UT Business Honors Program
D. Northwestern
E. U Penn (Wharton)
F. Duke
G. Rice
H. Texas A&M University
I. Dartmouth
J. Harvard
K. Yale </p>

<p>You can just list the letters, for example BADCFHIJHK...whatever is convenient.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

8

<p>UT Plan II is highly respected and well known by academics everywhere. There are in fact many students every year who could be accepted anywhere who choose to attend Plan II. Grad school, med school, and law school placement would be on par with the best institutions in America. If you want that "feel" , and I can't think of another place where you get THAT particular feel, then go for it.</p>

9

<p>Hey.. I live in Austin! Believe it or not, Plan II and Business Honors are not that hard to get in (in my school(public), if you are in top 1%, you are almost guaranteed into those programs). Know that UT has rolling admission.. so if you apply early, it's good for you!! (It doesn't conflict with Early Decision. I am applying early even though I am EDing to Williams College).. for the reputation, if you want to stay in Texas, or nearby areas, Red McComb Business Honor program will be an awesome advantage(Except Harvard, Yale, Princeton). However, if you plan to move to Chicago, or New York, eastern colleges will be good idea..(in Texas Rice is considered really good univ.. but in New York, most ppl don't know about it.. its like how most texans don't know Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams.. etc..)..</p>

<p>However, remember that if you are interested in MBA, work experience is really important!!!! & don't worry, UTA -Honor business will surely put you in a good job (Grduates willl recieve average of 3 job offers, and salaraies of 50K!).</p>

<p>My friends say Plan II is not that great, and that you can get almost same medical school placement, etc. in honors business program. I would also say that UT Business program has better name recognition.</p>

<p>soo Relax... you have great stats, and have two prestigious programs, which many Texas students would kill to get in, as safeties..</p>

10

<p>soo for business, My list would be Harvard -> UPenn -> UTBHonors... other programs are excellent, but UT's low tuition (3000) beats them all.. and you will have money left over to get in prestigious MBA programs</p>

11

<p>LOL. Not that hard to get into and top 1% almost guaranteed admission. I'm having a little trouble getting a good grasp of that. So 1% ,huh? What's that at your high school, 5 students? So "almost" 5 would be , like 4? If the top 100 , the top 20% of the students at your Austin high school applied (assuming a graduating class of 500), 4 would be accepted into the programs mentioned. Considering the hometown bias most schools have, and it is sometimes quite substantial, I'd say that for any state school program I'm aware of that would be pretty selective. Now, out of staters-your mileage will vary.</p>

12

<p>I think you are missing the concept of the well known-prestigious schools. These schools are successful because they create graduates who can learn, can be taught, or somehow acquire the ability to lead. The course material between UT and Princeton is probably the same and the quantitative stuff is easily measured by gpa. What is not measureable is decision making, ethics, poise, communications... </p>

<p>I have a close relative who graduated from an Ivy(economics). He is pretty high up on the ladder but his influence and knowledge base is not from his school but from the people he met/graduated from that school or associated with another prestigious school. The Connections go far beyond his immediate acquaintences. </p>

<p>Question you need to determine is whether UT can give YOU influence and connections later in your career? vs What could Princeton (name) do?</p>

13

<p>HAHA.. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.. my public school has about 600 kids.. I was saying it was relatively easy for mahajan to get in (it seemed to me that he was worrying about getting accepted into those programs) sorry for any misunderstanding</p>

<p>I do realize that connections are really important.. that's why I suggested that it would be good idea to attend prestigious MBA programs.. believe it or not, many, many UTB honor graduates attend top MBA programs after having successful careers for about 3 to 4 years.</p>

<p>I believe you live in Northern part of the USA, or California. My dad has numerous friends who work in business fields. According to them, at least in Texas, degrees from Rice & UTB-honor are more than enough. Of course, as mentioned above, if you don't want to stay in texas, its whole different ball game.</p>

14

<p>Try CarnegieMellonU. This year's economic nobel prize winners got their ph'ds from CMU. One still teaches at CMU. John Nash, his undergrad at CMU. </p>

<p>CMU also have well known schools of Business and Public Service. CMU is every bit as expensive as the IVY's, perhaps a little easier to get in and harder to stay in. Very international.</p>

15

<p>2004</p>

<p>Of the 180 entering first year students:</p>

<p>SAT I test scores:
Average SAT total: 1444
Average SAT Math: 720
Average SAT Verbal: 724
middle 50% range of SAT total score: 1400...1510
middle 50% range of SAT VERBAL score: 680...770
middle 50% range of SAT MATH score: 680...780</p>

<p>Average ACT composite score: 32.68
middle 50% range of ACT composite score: 30...33</p>

<p>National Merit/Achievement Recognition:
Of the 180 entering freshfolk:</p>

<p>.01 % = 1 National Achievement Scholar
3 % = 5 National Hispanic Scholars
33 % = 59 National Merit Finalists
7 % = 12 National Merit Semi-Finalist
33% = 59 National Merit Commended
78% with National Merit Recognition</p>

<p>2003
Profile of the 2003 entering freshman class:
Average Verbal SAT: 731
Average Math SAT: 719
Average Total SAT: 1450</p>

<p>Middle 50% range of the SAT MATH score: 690...750
Middle 50% range of the SAT VERBAL score: 690...770
Middle 50% range of the SAT TOTAL score: 1410...1500</p>

<p>AVERAGE ACT scores 33.86 </p>

<p>Class Rank:
Of the 162 admitted/accepted from ranking high schools:</p>

<p>17% were valedictorian (27of the 162 students from ranking high schools)
41% were ranked #1--#5 in their graduating class (66 of the 162)
84% were in the top 5% of their graduating class (135 of the 162)</p>

<p>National Merit/Achievement Recognition:
Of the 181 entering freshfolk:</p>

<p>3% = 5 National Hispanic Scholars
30% = 53 National Merit Finalists
8% = 14 National Merit Semi-Finalist
37% = 67 National Merit Commended
77% (139 of 181) with National Merit Recognition</p>

<p>2002</p>

<p>Profile of the 2002 entering freshman class:
SAT and ACT Averages:
an average SAT combined score of 1435; mid 50% range 1380-1480,
average verbal SAT score 718; mid 50% range 680-770, and
average math SAT score 717; mid 50% range 680-770.
Only 35 of these 186 students took the ACT test.</p>

<p>The average ACT score was 30.5.
High School Class Rank:
82% of those 157 entering Plan II freshmen were in the top 5% of their high school class;
96% of all entering Plan II freshman were in the top 10% of their high school class.
(of the 157 from high schools giving rank information--of 188 entering freshmen)</p>

<p>High School Achievement:
31 Valedictorians (20%)
10 Salutatorians (6%)
(of the 157 from high schools giving rank information--of 188 entering freshmen)</p>

<p>National Merit Awards:
74% of the entering freshmen earned national merit/achievement</p>

<p>71 were National Merit Finalist/Semi-Finalist (38% of entering freshmen)
64 were National Merit Commended (34% of entering freshmen)
2 had National Achievement Awards
3 were Hispanic Finalist/Semi-Finalist </p>

<p>2001</p>

<p>Profile of the 2001 entering freshman class:
SAT Averages:
an average SAT combined score of 1427 with a middle 50% range of 1380--1490;
average verbal SAT score 714 with a middle 50% range of 680--750;
average math SAT score 713 with a middle 50% range of 670--760.
Only 34 of these 183 students took the ACT test. Of those 34 students, 26 had ACT scores of 30 or more.</p>

<p>Advanced Placement Tests:
Of the 183 entering freshmen:</p>

<p>175 had three or more AP courses in high school;
154 took either the AB, BC or IB calculus offered at their high school.
High School Class Rank:
(150 of 183 entering freshmen were from high school giving rank information)</p>

<p>79 % of those 150 entering Plan II freshmen were in the top 5% of their high school class
96 % of those 150 entering Plan II freshman were in the top 10% of their high school class
High School Achievement:
26 Valedictorians (14%)
9 Salutatorians (5%)
National Merit Awards:
72% of the entering freshmen earned national merit</p>

<p>69 were National Merit Finalist/Semi-Finalist
52 were National Merit Commended
2 had National Achievement Awards
9 were Hispanic Finalist/Semi-Finalist</p>

16

<p>Well that confirms it then. Those statistics pale in comparison to those of , to , to , uhhh....those of ......well, uhh. O.K. Those are even better than I thought. And I was touting them. Jeez.</p>

17

<p>Well, after reading all of that I'm glad that my d has Baylor to fall back on when (oh, I mean if) she doesn't get into Plan II. sigh. But I do know that they accept quite a few more people than they can accomodate in Plan II classes because they know many of their top choices will most definitely be accepted elsewhere. And the lure of the ivies is hard to resist. (trying to push all you 1600's to the northeast)</p>

18

<p>Thanks so much for the great replies! I have learned a lot. I called the admissions office at UT, and found out that the BHP selects students based on many things, of which class rank and leadership are most important. The business school in general takes 75% of their class by taking the top 1%, then second 1% and so on...until the class quota is filled. </p>

<p>Plan II is a whole other story. Their admissions office had closed by the time I called, but I am wondering...do you have to send in their application when you send in the UT application for BHP? Also, how many extra essays do they have besides the given two needed for UT on the common application (this info was unclear)...</p>

<p>I doubt I will be first next semester because I have loaded up on AP courses, and we don't get extra points for them...so thats why I am thinking of sending my apps in now. If I wanted to do so, I'm not sure if I could complete the essays for Plan II. Now, it will be hard to convince my parents not to make me wait to get the Plan II stuff done, but I am thinking of dropping my plans to apply to Plan II altogether.</p>

<p>What do you think is worth more? Applying to UT BHP while I have a good rank (and thus better shot) or risking my rank (I might fall to around 6/480) to work on those Plan II essays?</p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

19

<p>As a general rule, apply while your rank is high. You have whole next week off. Finish those essays.</p>

20

<p>Plan II is a major in and of itself. It is more for the undecided student. D and I just spent last Friday visiting the Plan II center where she also attended one of their classes. Which she loved.</p>

<p>There is a separate Plan II area within the Utexas website that tells you about the essays. I believe she ended up having to write three essays. They place a great emphasis on these essays. The Plan II student we spoke to said that the one about choosing a book to write about was the most important essay.</p>

<p>You don't have to send in the Plan II application with the UTexas application. My daughter has been admitted to UT in the liberal arts but is still waiting on the Plan II decision which won't come until later because she didn't apply early decision.</p>

<p>I think you have a great chance wherever you apply. You can double major in Plan II and something else if you want.<br>
Good luck.</p>