<p>NickBarr: We're not Princeton and Harvard's rejects. I'll explain this one more time.</p>
<p>Every top school wants the best pick of students. If everyone did ED, this would be easy: ED = #1.</p>
<p>But what about people who have their first choice as Princeton or Harvard, and second choice as Penn? The majority of those students are good enough to get into Princeton and Harvard, but they don't.</p>
<p>And Penn, as well as almost every other elite school, wants those students. Consequently, it doesn't want to admit as many ED, because it wants to see what the Princeton and Harvard applicant (and potential rejects (again, not us)) have to offer to the applicant pool.</p>
<p>I really wonder if you'll be singing the same tune in April islanders, if god forbid your dream school rejects you and you look around at other kids who got in and ask ***, why did they get in and i didn't?</p>
<p>Haha I still don't think you understand the point linkin.... Why do colleges choose certain students? Because that's the kids they want... Therefore, the ones rejected, must be those that they didn't want... I know, it makes too much sense, right? Haha that's why those deferred were the ones who can possibly make some of the things they are looking for, but not all. And I totally agree when saying that some discriminatory factors make the process unfair, but them looking over it in 10-20 minutes doesn't seem unfair to me at all. I guess in your mind, they should look over every application for an hour and then deliberate upon a decision? Ha, then students would ***** about how long it takes, and how nervous they are. They do there best, they get over 20000 applications a year, not an easy task. And if this wasn't your argument to begin with, why did you step in? I understand where you are coming from yes, school is about education, not athletics or music, etc. But let me tell you something, this world, the U.S. government are all corrupt.... It's all about politics in this world and it's sad... But you can't change that. Yea, Penn is my dream school as well, but I don't count on getting in... So if I don't I'm not going to dwell on it forever. But there may be some envious feelings of others who got in that I feel don't deserve to, but don't come on a forum and ***** about it, and make others feel like they shouldn't have gotten in for various reasons.</p>
<p>Oh, and Viva your plan is terrible.... Ok, students pick one school to go to, but if you don't get in your screwed.... Great plan... Think about what your saying before you say it. Sure it would make the competition less, but what about those students who don't get in?? What are they supposed to do? Get thrown into a local retail store running the cash register? Come on, the system presently intact is fine... Quit complaining</p>
<p>Explanations, huh? On what proof do your explanations have backing? None! They are your way of venting your feelings because you didn't get in...</p>
<p>It has backing. Princeton and Harvard don't do ED, and more students than ever are getting deferred. It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.</p>
<p>No I didn't say that they should spend more time on apps. You said it was based on character and I disagree based on the fact that they don't spend significant time on essays.</p>
<p>And of course there are envious feelings. I'm not trying to tell people they didn't deserve to get in. Read what I posted earlier.</p>
<p>"Its a known fact that things such as living in a single parent home, being an URM, and being legacy does SIGNIFICANTLY increase chances of admissions at an Ivy League school. This dosen't mean that they're weaker applicant. In many cases they can be as strong if not stronger than the average of the entire applicant pool. They just have something that stands out about the difficulty of their lives. Honestly, it cant even be controlled. No one chooses what kind of house to be born into."</p>
<p>It means that these people have an advantage in admissions because of something that is out of their control. And others cant have the same advantage again due to things that are out of their control. What makes you say that one group is more deserving than the other? COLLEGE ADMISSIONS OFFICES. Two applicants that are the same but one is from a single home family and the other is from a stable middle class home. You know the adcoms are going to pick the first one. Don't screw with me and tell me that I'm vile and attacking people. It's the truth. Everyone knows it. It has nothing to do with accomplishments or intelligence. Is this an affirmative action debate?</p>
<p>Oh and linkin - shut your mouth about things "out of your control." I'm one of those single-parent, poor, URM kids from the middle of nowhere, and maybe I don't have the best scores or activities, but I sure as hell overcame my hurdles to get to where I am, it's not even fair to compare kids like that and well-off kids when it comes to admissions of who's deserving of what.</p>
<p>Congratulations for overcoming those hurdles. That wasn't sarcastic. I'm serious. </p>
<p>But can't you see that it still isn't fair that that it's given a ridiculous amount of weight? </p>
<p>And also you are legit, but there are so many kids who overplay their status just to get that title?</p>
<p>And nobody on this forum knows where I come from. You all judged before you knew. </p>
<p>No one specifically chooses their upbringing Eloquence. Don't think I'm attacking you. Thats what I meant by "out of my control." This pertains only to college admissions. Not to life. It's just that so much weight is often placed on those things that it's stifling to be outside of those classifications.</p>
<p>Ok linkin if we shall play that game... how about you answer me this... Why don't we just throw everything out? SATs, GPAs, everything.... kids get into certain college on a lottery. Because what about those wealthy, to middle class families who pay for their children to get the courses and preparation for SATs?? Don't tell me you don't think that the SAT has much to do with money? If you don't, your flat out naive.... Ultimately somebody does win the argument... your wrong. You see it as unfair that students get into ivy league schools because of "things out of their control"... Ha... what do you want, all the wealthy kids who can buy their scores and GPA?? Haha... You seem to make me laugh more and more, every post... Haha. I wholeheartedly agree with Eloquence... he, and so have many others, have overcome many obstacles in their life... so, what they don't deserve as good of an education as you? Arrogant *******...</p>
<p>Oh, and Viva.... please don't insult my intelligence. I took the ACT and got an 11 on the essay, so please do not make subtle comments about my writing skills.... For your sake, I hope they don't look at what you had to say in your essays, because your ideas blow... You just want to twist everything in life to make it convenient for you, and you alone.... What a selfish son-of-a-***** you are.... Think about what you say, and how it affects others before you talk. And once again, think about your "genius" plan... I apply to 3 schools ED, I get into all of them... How can I commit to one?? I signed a binding contract.... Which ultimately limits me to apply to one school ED, which therefore screws me over if I get rejected.... Illogical plan, dumbass</p>
<p>Does it matter if I write in complete sentences?? No, I'm obviously not incompetent... I proved your plan to be illogical, and stupid, to say the least. I've argued against your buddy linkin's feeble arguments.... So, I don't think I need to prove my intelligence by writing in complete sentences. So, please, once again, do not insult me nor my intelligence.... I'd say it's called calling the kettle black, my friend.... And the only reason you side with linkin, is because he is sticking up for your terrible reasoning and complaints for why Penn didn't accept you... Get over it already.</p>
<p>No. I'm sticking up for Viva because its what I believe in. </p>
<p>You are right. SAT scores for some students can be raised by paying for tutoring. But there are many students who have not had classes who have studies some of the ample material in publication and obtained excellent scores. </p>
<p>GPA is absolutely not attached to money. I don't understand how that one works. Explain it to me when you get a chance.</p>
<p>Islanders, it really doesn't matter to me what you may argue. The truth is affirmative action only works to get students into college. After college no one has the right to a job or some kind of position based on their upbringing. No one writes single parent home on their employment resume. If college is pre-professional training, as Penn believes, the same principle should apply.</p>
<p>Now thats not taking away from the hurdles that these students have to overcome but many times if not all the time that becomes the focal point of their application. But you're right, everyone deserves a good education. But everyone is equally deserving. Because students have difficult socio-economic status's doesn't mean that they are more deserving than any other average middle-class student.</p>
<p>It seems to me that many of the students on this form associate money with the perfect life. My friends, wealth is in paper. It does not buy intelligence or talent. Understood that money is essential to leading a comfortable life but please people do not use the money card as an excuse to 1) consider those who have no financial concerns arrogant pricks 2) account for achievements or 3) say they are not deserving. Everyone has their own sets of problems regardless of where they come from.</p>
<p>Islanders, intelligent people don't need to throw their test scores in peoples faces to prove their intelligence. You think you've proved your point? You've proved it to people who are in support of the system because it benefits them. It we are all crying equal opportunity nowadays, then why don't we make it truly equal?</p>
<p>although I agree with linkin as I am against affirmative action and anybody receiving an advantage in the process based upon wealth or lack thereof there is no reason to continue with this argument because the fact of the matter is thats how it is always going to be.....and all of you with your obstacles and poor families I feel for you but then i dont because in the end you will get in over me with the same stats and if i fortunately get in...then i have the honor of paying full ridiculous prices for me to go to school and in doing so I pay for you as well....</p>
<p>I'll agree that admissions committees at top-tier schools may let certain situations (single-parent home, minority, etc.) cause them to view the applicant with a little more leniency. But it's just a cop-out by those who didn't get in to say that the only reason they didn't get accepted is because the admissions committee chose to accept underprivleged applicants first. If you're going to shift the blame to them, at least take some responsibility for yourself too. There must have been something in your application that could use more work. Maybe your essays or reccomendations weren't as great as you think.</p>
<p>To be honest, I don't recall putting anything on my application that indicated that I lived in a single-parent home or that I am estranged from my father and my mom makes 30k a year. I think the only thing I said was that I would be applying for financial aid, and I left it at that. So I really think you're overplaying the whole thing about Penn accepting kids from a lower social bracket with utmost priority. Penn had no idea about my family's financial status until I filled out the CSS profile and mailed in all of the financial aid info (And they didn't look at those during the admissions process. Need-blind admissions, remember?). </p>
<p>I got into Penn because I've wanted to go there pretty much since I first began to understand the American educational system. My stats were below-average, but I asked the right teachers for recommendations (I'm a great student and really involved at my school so I had a nice network of teachers who would portray me in a favorable light). I poured my heart and soul into my essay and made it evident that Penn has been my first choice for so long. It's location makes it more convenient for me to attend than a school like Harvard or Princeton and quite frankly I like the idea of being able to mix a social life with a strong academic career at Penn. I don't want to be a bookworm shut-in for four years. I want to have the full college experience, and I know that Penn can offer that to me.</p>
<p>If I had a choice between applying ED to any other ivy league or top school and applying ED to Penn, I'd pick Penn ten times out of ten. That is why it frustrates me when a thread like this shows up and tries to undermine that by implying that everyone who applied ED to Penn did so only because they had no other options among the upper-level schools. That is insulting to me personally and everything for which I have worked. The point of ED is so that students can make it clear to a school that it is their first choice and that they are very passionate about attending. Do people abuse the system? Sure. Some students apply ED to a school that they really don't care about just because they know it will boost their chances, and that is a shame. But I'm not one of those people. I got into the school because it is where I have wanted to be for most of my life, and I made sure they (the admissions committee) knew it. Take away everything from the applicaitons process that isn't based on means within the student's control (socioeconomic background, upbringing, etc.) and I'm sure that my application still would have gotten me in (Even though I don't think that socioeconomic background plays as much of a role as you think it does). It's not me being pompous, it's me being honest. My application was amazing, and if I had the same passion for any other school I think I would have had a legitimate chance of getting into that one, too. That is why threads like this infuriate me. Because the people who create them usually refuse to believe that another application may have been better than theirs, and instead choose to believe that the entire thing is based on things like social bracket.</p>