OP, I am sorry that you are not finding your niche at UVA. Perhaps you are not giving it a fair chance. Not everyone dresses up for football games. I didn’t and my own children did/do not. Not everyone spends their time at frat parties. And, I disagree with your assessment that UVA has the feel of a “converted plantation.” It sounds like you made up your mind before you got here that you were going to dislike Charlottesville and UVA. You seem to want to persist in these beliefs, however misguided and untrue, in order to validate your perspective. If you want to transfer, please visit your new school and vet it more carefully. I guarantee that UVA is big and diverse enough for you to find a social group where you will fit in, if you want to do so. At all three of my children’s orientations, I listened while President Sullivan explained that UVA had a wealth of opportunities for students, BUT they have to seek them out. It is up to each individual to find what they are interested in and go after it. That is good advice no matter where you end up.
Brantly, I do not mind frats and sororities, but it is my understanding that they are significantly less “in your face” than they are at UVA. I like football, UVA’s team is simply not good. That lack of diversity is a little concerning, but to be blunt, I also mean lack of diversity of behavior. Greek culture is overwhelming at UVA in a way that I did not sense in my visits to other Universities.
Another thing is, I simply think UMich is the better engineering school and better STEM school overall. As much as I hate to say it, I simply never feel any pride at all in telling people I go to UVA. I always just wish I could say I go somewhere else instead without lying about it. On a rational level, I know UVA is a good school. But my gut doesn’t feel it.
oldUVAgrad, I am aware that not everyone does what I’m griping about, but the culture is prominent enough for me to dislike it.
Believe me when I say I truly did give UVA a fair chance for the first few months that I was there. All of my attempts to take part in clubs failed. I am planning on visiting as many schools as I can this semester without compromising my academic life. I am for sure visiting Gatech and UMich.
You can disagree with me if you want, and tell me what I’m saying is misguided and untrue, but ask many other people who go here and they will agree with my most major points in some way or another. They are even more likely to agree with me if they are an ethnic minority. Once or twice is coincidence, but the many people I have talked to indicate a pattern.
Also, this has gone beyond simply my social life. At this point, the mere mention of going back to college sets me in a bad mood. From my observations, I would simply fit in better somewhere else, and there would be the added bonus of actually being proud of my school. The only thing holding me back is transfer credit bureaucracy, but even then I think it might be worth overcoming. As for the campus, to each their own, but the words “historic” and “southern charm” just translate to plantation to me. The University’s brick buildings and “colonial” feeling are not attractive to me. The fact that there is a confederate flag just a few miles down 64 does not help. You are in the south and you feel it at UVA, and I have never liked the south.
I do not want to persist in these beliefs, because my education would sail much smoother if I could just stay at UVA and find some way to love it the way others do. Transferring is my last resort, and my circumstances have pushed me to it. Despite what you might think, I am not some petulant child who is dead set on hating UVA. I am trying not to take the dressing up and “good ol’ boy” culture at UVA too seriously, and just think of it as some sort of inside joke for the students. I am trying to learn to appreciate the “colonial” and southern feeling because I know that I will probably never live in the south again, and I’ll be spending plenty of time around the steel and glass that I love.
But you know, misery is like a gas and a person’s life is like a container. The gas fills up the space completely and permeates every nook and cranny, tainting everything in one’s life. I probably am depressed and need therapy, but I know for a fact UVA is not helping.
Assuming those statistics are correct, UVA has twice as many students in their Greek community than UMich (35% vs. 17%) does in theirs.
https://studentlife.umich.edu/resource/352
https://fsl.virginia.edu/frequently-asked-questions
And in terms of football, well, it’s not close.
I’m unable to post the link, but in terms of diversity of the two universities, UMich is #169 and UVA is #323 according to Niche.
See how things go this fall.
I think a better natural fit for you would be a smaller school with far less of a bro culture – parties, greek clubs, sports, etc.
If you’re serious about med school you can major in just about anything as long as you take the necessary science courses. To that end, UVA offers a lot of choices. But if you really want to major in Engineering, here are some LACs that offer it:
- Swarthmore I think Swat might be a fantastic fit for you. The academics are hard and the place is not at all known for having a big party scene.
- Bucknell Bucknell has quite the bro culture though...
- Lafayette Not quite as "bro" as Bucknell.
- Union Bro culture.
- Harvey Mudd Not much of a bro culture. Nerdy, but the other Claremonts bring balance.
If you don’t have to major in Engineering, that obviously brings many more LACs into play.
Here are some good universities not really known for a huge bro culture:
- Cornell
- UChicago (limited Engineering options)
- Columbia
- Washington U
- Rice
- Georgetown (no 4-year engineering)
- Emory (3-2 w/GA Tech I believe)
- U of Rochester
- Tufts
- Case Western Reserve
- Brandeis (no 4-year engineering)
- Northeastern
But honestly, you are at a great school. Maybe you’ll find your people this semester and begin to open up that can of college awesomeness.
Sounds like you really need to take a gap semester, tour other college and really think more about where you want to study and what you hope to accomplish. We toured UVA and attended admitted students days and my D18 loved it. She doesn’t think of herself as the Go Greek type but she could see herself on the Lawn. She appreciated the beauty and the historical nature of what Jefferson designed. UVA has one of the best public school reputations around and she was honored to be admitted as an out-of-state student. I saw a ton of diversity on both of our visits (because we were looking for it), but there is a definitely also a button-down preppy vibe. Charlottesville is a wonderful southern town in VA, but it is not a metropolitan area like Atlanta (more mountains and trails than the glass and steel you desire.) Maybe you would be happier at GA Tech because it is in the heart of a top metro city (lots of glass, steel and concrete), but it’s still in the south and GA is just as southern as Virginia. You probably need to look at the northern schools in big cities - NYC, Boston, Philly, Pitt. - because it is apparent you have a preconceived opinion about the south. I’m not even sure Rice in Houston (we also toured there - tons of diversity, concrete and steel) but it’s in Texas. If your grades are that good and you were admitted out of high school to selective schools you should check into the schools @prezbucky presented. I wouldn’t waste another dime being miserable. Get an internship or job in the industry that you could pass off as gap time for work experience, and on the weekends visit other schools. Keep in mind small campuses are not as diverse as the larger one.
If UVA is not a good fit, you should apply to transfer asap. Then make the best of a bad situation at UVA until you are accepted somewhere to transfer. Maybe get out of town on the weekends. As the poster above said, Rice might be a good fit for you . Rice has an inclusive residential college system in lieu of Greek life, and Rice is ranked number 1 for race and class diversity. Rice is in the center of Houston in the medical center area. The campus itself has beautiful brick architecture, but it is surrounded by the glass and steel buildings of the medical center. Rice is in the south, but Houston is not a typical old south city. Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country.
JimERussler- I feel your pain. My daughter was the same way. UVA is a great school academically and is a great fit for some, but I have never seen another school where as significant of a percentage of the student body was unhappy. I can’t tell you how many people have told me that they (or their kids) were unhappy there. UVA touts their retention rate as proof that kids like it there but staying and being unhappy are not mutually exclusive . Lots of kids stay despite being unhappy (like mine). In fact, I know of dozens who I have talked to who stayed but were unhappy the entire time there.
I would suggest transferring. With time you could find your group and be less unhappy, but in my experience the overall impression is unlikely to change.
@TV4caster can I ask why your daughter stayed? My twin sons applied this year OOS and were not accepted, both disappointed since it was top 2 school for them. With so many colleges to choose from, JimE you should go too. I like the Swarthmore suggestion. Our only college tour last year where it rained the entire time, I liked the school but sons said too small and not enough sports enthusiasm.
3sonsmom- lack of options. We told her she had to stay in state and the only school she was interested in was Va Tech (which had given her an offer of admission out of HS). Despite great grades at UVA she was denied transfer. So, instead, we let her study abroad to cut down on the amount of time she would have to be on campus.
Don’t want to clutter the thread but as for Houston I don’t see Houston as a Southern City so much as a world city. It is the forth largest city on America and the former mayor as of last year was openly gay. And having spent some time in Texas now the state is as much the west as it is the south. Certainly not Alabama South
That said transferring is hard but also bold. It might be empowering as doing something difficult usually is.
You should look at Johns Hopkins—it sounds like it would be a great fit for you.
@JimERussler Every school is not a good fit for every student - that’s why there are thousands of schools to choose from.
If you truly aren’t happy you should try to transfer and ignore the opinions of anyone who says you haven’t given it enough time, or tried hard enough, etc. You should not feel bad about what you have or haven’t done to make it work at UVA. Your experience is your experience and whether other posters agree with it really doesn’t matter - it’s your life. It sounds as if you have made an effort to get involved in clubs that don’t revolve around drinking and they haven’t worked out, for one reason or another.
Try to make the best of it when you return this semester so that you can stick it out until you’re able to transfer - and maybe, just maybe, something will change in the meantime and you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe you’ll meet a professor who you really connect with who can suggest some other clubs that you hadn’t thought of or you’ll meet someone in class who also isn’t a partier. But if not, transferring is always an option and it’s a very good option if you’re unhappy.
The drinking culture may not be unique to UVA but there are certainly schools where it feels less dominant, and you should absolutely do your research on that before you apply to transfer.
I wish you the best of luck!
This is the same experience you will get at any large public university, it is what it is. I would definitely look at more academically focused smaller schools, to include LAC’s and others already mentioned.
It seems pretty clear that you should transfer. At this point, besides what schools would be a good fit for you to apply to, the big and very time sensitive question is whether you’d be better off taking a gap year or going back for the year. Pros of taking a gap year is you will have fewer credits to transfer (and perhaps lose), and I’m a little concerned for your emotional health if you go back. I’d be curious to hear other’s opinions on whether taking a gap year would hurt OP’s chances to successfully transfer to a good school.
- Request a leave of absence for Fall. (instead, work somewhere- anywhere).
- you may not get into GTech and even if you do your parents may not pay for it so you shou’d talk with them about this: what will they pay? For what school?
- apply to Virginia Tech - if you’re unwilling to consider Virginia Tech and would rather stay at UVA, ask yourself how much UVA is truly a poor fit and how much is that you’re hung up on ‘prestigious’.
- after discussing costs with your parents, apply to Swarthmore, HarveyMudd, GTech, JHU, Lafayette, Cornell, Northeastern. Be ready to be denied at most. Add a few safeties such as Pitt or UCincinnati.
You need to apply only to schools that are very strong in engineering.
Someone mentioned Lafayette before. They may have said they don’t offer BME, not sure if it’s a deal breaker but it might be more of that inclusive environment you are looking for. I toured it last year at this time and it seemed like a very warm place filled with intellectual and serious students, yet a very collaborative environment. There are lots of great small schools with engineering. I’m sure you can find a great one if you decide to transfer.
We just toured UVA yesterday actually and my son (junior in HS) said it is now his number one choice. But I have heard it can be a tough place to settle into socially, probably for many of the reasons any large school would be. Our tour guide actually said she was considering transferring after freshman year…but she stuck it out and is now a tour guide who absolutely loves the school…know that you aren’t alone and if you go back, I think there is probably a lot of hope for you to find your niche. Probably more people feel the same way as you than you realize (and that could be anywhere, not just UVA).
Hi, Collegemomjam:
Not to undercut the poster’s experience, but I just had two freshman sons begin their First Year three weeks ago. They are non-drinkers who were concerned about UVA’s party culture, alleged “preppiness,” and just generally not fitting in at UVA. To cut to the chase, they are having a great time academically and socially. Classes have been interesting, professors engaging and approachable, and they’ve already been involved in numerous clubs and activities. To date, they’ve been part of a film production team, played in a beach volleyball tournament, scrimmaged with multiple club sports, been to numerous club meetings, watched a political symposium, become addicted to Spikeball, joined a couple of club sports, played “dorm golf,” went to a tailgate and football game, and are currently meeting with and/or completing applications for Madison House volunteer activities, a school paper, a sketch comedy club, several of the McIntire business clubs, and more. One of them did leave an activity early when drinking became the primary activity, but that was his choice and he didn’t feel pressured to stay. But overall, they are very pleased to be at UVA. Good luck with the college application process.
@kidstocollege thanks! And so glad your sons are doing so well. I think some people settle in sooner than others. I’m glad your sons settled in so quickly. Sounds like they are totally in the right place! My son is a junior in HS so we have some time, but I imagine UVA will stay on his list. We are OOS so it’s a long shot, but he will try. Are your boys hoping to get in to McIntire? They don’t apply until they are sophomores, right?