<p>Admitted to a bunch of great schools but now need to decide which to pick. I'm from New Jersey so I'm out of state for UVa but price is not a factor. I'm looking more closely at UVa & Georgetown because they have dedicated business schools compared to Duke/UChicago.</p>
<p>I'm primarily interested in business but have no idea what I want to pursue. I'm leaning towards accounting but the job prospect seems to be good money but boring life. Investment banking seems to be very good money but extreme hours and be possibly detrimental to health. So not sure if I'd be looking at bulge bracket firms or the big four accounting firms as I'm still a high school senior. Took the AP economics exams and got a 4 on both, didn't really like micro but macro was interesting.</p>
<p>More towards McIntire vs McDonough, if I were straight pursuing accounting, would going to UVa be much better? They seem to have much more full-time hires from the big four, but Georgetown attracts the big names. Also, McIntire is ranked #2 for the second year in a row, while McDonough hovers around #14...is this that big difference? Only reason I ask is because McIntire is ranked above Wharton but we all know that's not true...</p>
<p>My personal ranking is as follows but still in need of advice.
1. Georgetown
+very prestigious
+iconic location for internships and being in the capital of the U.S.
+great business school ($65k median salary, new building for MSB)
+good student-work balance
+nice dorms and good food
+in a nice neighborhood and has beautiful, but small, campus
+major airports available
-not as highly ranked as McIntire
-not sure about how social life compares to big public schools
-facilities get a C+ on collegeprowl.? I come from a private northern school and I love having great facilities (buildings/sports/whatever)
-very preppy attitude (can deal with it but I like simplistic style)
2. UVa
+Will be able to attend the #2 ranked b-school in the U.S. (60k median salary, #1 MBA feeder school, A+/A+/A+ on teaching/facilities/job placement)
+great social atmosphere/best "college life" balance
+big and beautiful (one of the best in the U.S.) campus
+great academics
+great weather compared to NJ
+hot girls
+people will be much more fun-loving and interesting
-big classes/is public university
-bad food
-no advising system
-self-segregation of people (I like a diverse group of friends)
3. Duke
+only reason am considering is for the name...
-far away from home
-kind of preppy attitude
4. UChicago
+amazing academics
-extremely cutthroat academics (I don't want to be studying all the time)
-social life isn't that great compared to the above
-extremely COLD</p>
<p>I'm going to visit UVa next week, the Georgetown the week after to see what campus I like better.</p>
<p>I think you’re going about this wrong unless you would rather study business over any other discipline that exists for sure (natural sciences/social sciences/humanities). UChicago might be slightly less recruited than UVA McIntire but it is on par or better than Georgetown and Duke is the best of all of these options.</p>
<p>Just because Chicago and especially Duke don’t have undergraduate business schools, that doesn’t mean they’re not strongly recruited by the elite companies. If you know for sure you want to do Accounting, I would choose based on fit between Georgetown MSB and UVA McIntire. If you want to do Investment Banking or Management Consulting, then it’s Duke hands down for purely the best opportunities.</p>
<p>The top consulting firms (Bain, BCG, and McKinsey) don’t consider Georgetown or UChicago core schools uniformly and UVA is a pretty weak target school for them. Duke, on the other hand, is one of their top core schools at the undergraduate level outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Wharton.</p>
<p>UVA McIntire is your 2nd best choice for banking and consulting outside of Duke but the problem is you run a risk of not being admitted to their business school and then you’re in really hot water.</p>
<p>I think Duke is the clear choice here unless finances are an issue for you. You seem to like UChicago less than Duke so you can knock that out of contention. Georgetown’s business school is not as highly regarded as UVA’s so you can throw that out. UVA McIntire is a solid target school, albeit not as good as Duke, but you have no guarantee that you"ll get into their u-grad biz program until after you apply at the end of freshman year.</p>
<p>Duke is not that far away from NJ if you’re willing to travel to Virginia. Once you’re 2-3 hours away from home, it’s pretty much all the same. Duke has a lot more geographic diversity by the way and the NJ contingent there is much greater than at UVA so it"ll be the more comfortable social environment for you since everyone will be looking to make friends for the first time unlike UVA, where there might be “high school cliques” already formed before school starts.</p>
<p>Duke is not that preppy by the way, at least compared to UVA and Georgetown. You"ll find a mixture of almost every kind of personality. Duke is also more diverse; it has twice as many Asians and more African Americans as well as Hispanics percentage wise than the other schools you’re considering.</p>
<p>Duke also has the stronger student body, greater focus on undergrads, and the nicer facilities. Check out how modern Duke’s athletic and residential facilities are compared to UVA.</p>
<p>“Will be able to attend the #2 ranked b-school in the U.S”</p>
<p>UVA must really be playing up their Businessweek ranking since it seems lots of people actually believe it to be true. Does anyone honestly believe that Mendoza and McIntire are better than Wharton? Even the OP doesn’t believe it.</p>
<p>so i guess I’ll toss Chicago out, but Duke has never really been that high on my list. I only applied cuz there was a short supplement and it was ranked high. I’m honestly not swayed by Duke at the moment even with it’s elite recruitment because Wall Street is not my goal and I might be looking into a getting a nice paid job in a smaller city (in perhaps a smaller company? not sure) vs. large cities with higher cost of living.</p>
<p>should the entire business week rankings really be discredited? Couldn’t find another good ranking site, the USNWR wasn’t any good.</p>
<p>I’d think I’d be capable of getting into the McIntire, I did get in out of state and have excelled in GPA/school related stuff (my downfalls are testing/extra-curriculars). And yes rjkofnovi, I don’t believe that those two are better so I was wondering if there was such a big difference in #14 McDonough vs #2 McIntire.</p>
<p>Maybe the way I’m looking at this is a big thing, I’ve been a math/science student but I don’t like engineering…so I chose business as my career goal. Realistically, these are the only majors I would consider: accounting, finance (investment banking), real estate, management, economics and if none of those work, I’d go to get a degree in chemical engineering…Accounting seems likely, just that I don’t exactly know what an accountant does on day to day basis.</p>
<p>There are also liberal arts requirements at MSB so I won’t be developing a single-minded path, but Duke only has an economics degree, and for the most part, I don’t want to be an economist (I hate general topics of economics unless it’s how federal government impacts big businesses and such).</p>
<p>“Georgetown’s business school is not as highly regarded as UVA’s so you can throw that out.”
This is what has been bothering me. Would this actually hurt to go to MSB instead of McIntire?</p>
<p>Goldenboy, thank you for the wealth of information so far!</p>
<p>All of your negatives are wrong besides the fact that UVA is public (not sure why that is a negative). McIntire is a great school. It’s not Wharton but I would place is Top 5 as a current student. And don’t worry, all the big names come here to recruit.</p>
<p>As far as Duke and econ goes, you will be able to get the finance-type jobs with an econ degree.</p>
<p>Knights, no way am I trying to make UVa look bad because it was my prior first choice (I’d definitely go to UVa over Duke so right now it’s coming down to Georgetown vs UVa), just that some of the things I’ve noted from the internet have made this list. Feel free to argue against them.</p>
<p>Notes: I only got 4 on the econ exams so I would be stuck in what I hear are 300-500 people intro to economics classes the first year. I would honestly HATE that.</p>
<p>I don’t hate public universities, I just dislike the size of them. Biggest reason I removed Michigan (Ross) from my choices was because of sheer size of school.</p>
<p>Food got rated C+ on collegeprowl., and my friend who lived there said the food wasn’t that great but I will visit next week for Day on the Lawn and try eat at a freshmen cafeteria.</p>
<p>Again, in the “Worst of UVa”, it lists no advising system, which I would really like to have to help plan my classes/internships/future career.</p>
<p>Self-segregation is might be a rare occurrence, but it happens, I’m sure of it.</p>
<p>Overarching question: Would it hurt to go to McDonough over McIntire as someone who is maybe 70% sure about accounting but will definitely remain in the business field?</p>
<p>About 65 to 70% of UVa applicants are accepted into the comm school.</p>
<p>A remark was made about UVa facilities and dorms. Hundreds of millions have been invested in recent years, including major new facilities for McIntire. About half of the first year dorms will have been replaced by next year, and the other half are either 15 years old or are the “old dorms” that many students actually prefer because they are so sociable. Almost all of the recreation and atlhetic facilities have been replaced or rebuilt. Particularly check out the inside of the new gyms and aquatic center right in the middle of the first year dorms.</p>
<p>There have been some complaints about the standard meal plan for
1st year students at UVa, however, my son tells me that there are plenty of opportunities for flexibility and alternatives if you know about them. Most people don’t buy a meal plan after 1st year, particularly if they get an apartment or join a fraternity or sorority with meals. </p>
<p>My favorite quote about Georgetown: “The students expect to be treated like royalty… because many of them are.”</p>
<p>charlieschm, what would you recommend I check out next week during the Day on the Lawn? I think I will try visit 1 or 2 classes, then check the general campus and the business school building. Hopefully get a meal at the cafeteria and then finally see the dorms. Is there anything I’m missing?</p>
<p>Also: I love how much UVa cares about its students. Didn’t know about them replacing the dorms, that seems really cool and glad they have the endowment to back it up!</p>
<p>The proof is in the pudding, and this is where you’ll find your answer. You really can’t go wrong with either – they’re both fine institutions. You’ll need to decide what you really like about each after visiting and see which “fits” you better. Our D went through a similar scenario in '10 only it was between Northwestern and UVA – she opted for UVA because for her, it had more of the whole package she desired (balance between academics and fun; gorgeous campus nestled in the mountains that are breathtaking in the fall; great weather w/ a mild winter; active greek life; community of students that attend most every football, lacrosse, baseball, etc. game; tradition out the wazoo; etc.). Compare price, compare fit, and go with your heart.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t discredit the rankings so quickly. There’s a CC member at Penn that actually wrote that Penn students at CAS and engineering think Wharton kids have easy classes. So perhaps the big banks go there for raw talents, not necessarily because they learn more than students from other schools.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in working in finance in NYC (Wall Street type stuff) I’d go with Georgetown. They have a great alumni base and lots of recruiting is done there each year.</p>
<p>I took my son to Day on the Lawn last year - I don’t know this year’s schedule. Make a reservation early - the earlier dates fill up. They had snacks, discussions with faculty and programs in Old Cabell Hall (a beautiful building designed by McKim Mead and White architects in 1900). </p>
<p>My son then went off by himself to have lunch with students - I believe they had students waiting at the admissions office. They ate at Newcomb, which some people say is not as good as O Hill, where most 1st years eat. (Meanwhile, I went to lunch with people I went to UVa with, who each had a child attending). </p>
<p>My son stayed overnight with a student, set up through the Monroe Society, who took him to a fraternity party. </p>
<p>In the afternoon, one room in each type of dorm was available to see. To avoid self-segregation, the U. no longer lets students pick your type of dorm, but it is good to see what is available. </p>
<p>They had info sessions for various programs, such as Comm School.</p>
<p>As far as things that are not on the official agenda, I’d make sure I walk up and down the length of the Lawn, and the gardens behind them (it is easy to miss the gardens). I’d also take a walk around the Corner, which is the restaurant/commercial area on University Av./W. Main St. east of the Rotunda. I’d go in the Athletic and Aquatics Center near the first year dorms. I would attend a class in your prospective major, if possible.</p>
<p>UVa has the highest average endowment per student of any public university in the US. That was built with lots of donations by unusually loyal alums.</p>
<p>Wasn’t saying you were trying to make UVA look bad, I was just responding to your points. The food is fine, really. And as for those big classes, it’s just something you get through. It’s a survey course, it’s not like you’ll be learning groundbreaking stuff. And UVA is small for a public school at 13K. McIntire is small for a business school at around 320/year, and all your classes would be max 35 people.</p>
<p>You really seem better suited to a business major than econ so your focus on UVa and Georgetown seems spot on. I’d toss out the rankings, visit the schools, and choose the better fit. Georgetown’s business program may not be top ranked, but the school has a great rep and a dedicated bunch of alums willing to offer a helping hand to grads. Don’t believe that UVa will offer anything better than that, maybe not even that.</p>
<p>^that was my whole idea, that I would like to pursue a business school instead of a wholly liberal arts curriculum, which turns me away from Duke as prestigious as it may be. Going through high school, I’ve been always singularly focused on certain subjects that I have an affinity towards, and others I would a lot of the times just not pay attention to. Never took AP history/english classes because even though I could do well, I just hated the subjects in general. I think going into a business school will let me make the most of the four years (and get a shot to earn a CPA right after undergraduate studies).</p>
<p>Similar
-class size should be relatively similar when in the actual business curriculum (~300 kids per graduating class as well)
-similar starting salary and job placement, not too worried about those at all
-similar number of living alumni from the business programs of each field (~13k)
-about the same length, McIntire is 2 years but McDonough is 4 years with at least a year or two spent doing the liberal arts requirements for graduation
-similar time spent on classwork per week (~18hrs)</p>
<p>McIntire
-will need to apply with prerequisites met in fields such as programming/language/business reqs.
-more people are in the accounting field (15% accepted jobs in this field)
-total big four hires (PWC/DTT/KPMG/E&Y) = 101
-314 companies recruiting on campus
-not many big bulge bracket firms hiring
-125 companies on campus for internships
-99% of internships are paid
-BS in undergraduate commerce with concentrations in accounting, finance, information technology, management, marketing
-56 business electives available
-3rd year is the integrated core curriculum, unique to McIntire</p>
<p>McDonough
-more finance based (only 9% in the accounting field)
-total big four hires (PWC/DTT/KPMG) = 36…E&Y not even present
-117 companies recruiting on campus (though 1741 job offers posted on school boards)
-bigger name companies recruiting on campus (Citi, BoA, GS, MS, CS, DB)
-some recruiters for commercial companies like AEagle/Google
-52 companies on campus for internships (big name brands)
-46% of internships are paid
-arguably easier for internships due to location (possible to do during school year?)
-mean gift of alumni is 3x as much as UVa’s
–has majors in accounting, finance, operation & information management, management, marketing, international business, business administration
-29 business electives available
-brand new building that looks awesome :D</p>
<p>Jake, Received your PM. Yes, you and my son are in almost identical situations.</p>
<p>My son attended the first DOTL at UVA 2 weeks ago and the McIntire presentation was very impressive; it was 80 degrees and sunny and the student population was extremely friendly and outgoing. There was nothing not to like since we also got to meet Dean J (and Cav Dog)</p>
<p>My son’s main concern is the lack of McIntire guarantee. As I mentioned in previous posts,my son will need at least 3 language classes, the Comm pre-reqs , programming and the recommended extracurriculars, work/internship and leadership. I don’t know if he can live the full UVA social experience and get all of that completed in 18 - 24 months.</p>
<p>I believe that the 60% -ish acceptance rate may be slightly over optimistic, as I know many students drop out along the way when they realize their pre-req grades are not in range for the av McIntire acceptance.</p>
<p>Big 4 do more than accounting - they do consulting and advisory work as well. That being said, that Big 4 number looks really high. Are you sure you haven’t included the MS in Accounting program’s employment numbers there? All the bulge brackets come to McIntire - I have friends working for every BB this summer except one I believe. And our building was just renovated in 2008. I’ve seen MSB’s building and it’s nice, but ours is too. And the ICE curriculum is the best thing I’ve done in school.</p>
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