Hello Everyone! Some of you might remember me as the guy who felt bad about not choosing Michigan over Wisconsin for my high school college decision. However, after looking through the responses and doing my own research, I can confidently say that I no longer have such anxiety, at least in regards to academic quality. UW seems and even more stellar state school than I thought, and its Econ department specifically is a power house (something I wished I realized earlier). This seems to hold for almost any major I can think of/am interested in. I know somebody replied to my thread saying an Econ PHD hopeful should major in math (which I am aware of) and I feel very lucky that UW had a stellar math department, with professors like Jordan Ellenberg.
But, if I am so happy, why am I posting? Well, my last and final gripe/question about the institution is its acceptance rate, which I believe “holds down” the prestige of the institution and made me initially think that UW is not a peer of schools like UMich. You see (although it has gotten much more competitive) UW has historically held an admission rate of 50%, while top public like Umich or UVA have historically had admission rates of 25%. Umich/UVA’s acceptance rate seems much more in line with competing privates like BU/Georgetown/NYU(historically) etc. While I think UW Madison is as good as these private schools in terms of academic quality, its admission rate does not seem competitive compared to these privates. My basic point here is that UW’s relatively high admission rate does not seem to compare with the academic quality of the institution. The website “Public University Honors” in 2019 released a list of five public institutions with all academic departments ranked 30th or better: Berkeley, UCLA, Umich, UW Madison, and Texas. UW Madison seems to be the odd duck when it comes to admission rates of these quality schools, even though UW is receiving more and more apps! Why is this? Furthermore, I know someone might answer about UW’s low yield rate, but imo UW’s academic quality should generate a decent yield, at least comparable to a uni like Texas. In my opinion, I actually think that it’s the acceptance rate which drives many good students away: Just like with me, the acceptance rate makes gullible teenagers think UW isn’t as good as it is. I mean, theoretically, my pure. admission rates Illinois Wesleyan University has an equal acceptance rate than UW Madison, even though I think it’s fair to say that UW is a better school. Basically, my q is why is UW’s acceptance rate relatively high and does this affect the prestige of the institution( like for job offers)?
Sort of sad that the quality of the school is being judged by the number of students that it DOES NOT serve. In other words, the more kids that it rejects, the “better” the school? What the heck kind of mission is that?
Do you genuinely believe that the quality of teaching at a school like Michigan is materially better and distinguished than Wisconsin and that Wisconsin is nearly twice as good as Arizona State?
I, at least, do not.
In the real world, of which I am a proud, hiring member, prospective employers draw ZERO differentiation between 95% of schools. If you went to HYPMS, I’d be intrigued although I often think those grads are overly confident and often under perform. If you went to some for-profit or super esoteric school, I at least want to know why. But, if you went the 95% of schools in between, I know that you have enough self-motivation to navigate the requirements of a degree and the ability, hopefully, to write and process.
Don’t get hung up on the differences between something that you will care about and will be relevant for less than four years of your entire life. In fact, really, it matters to graduating high school seniors. Once you choose a school, everyone there is in the same boat and you’ll find very smart kids at nearly every school in the country.
One thing I tell my kids and try to live by myself is “don’t stress over things out of your control.” The acceptance rates are what they are.
You are at a great school where you seem to be happy and doing well. So continue to take control of your experience there – take the great professors, get involved, seek out friendships etc. Your future will be defined by what you achieve, not the fact that you are at UW rather than UM (or any other school for that matter.)
I’ll fix this for you…”I think it’s fair to say that UW is a better school”…for some students.
Acceptance rate is a function of how many apps the school gets and how many students the school can accept. Popularity is not necessarily a sign of quality, or fit. The job (or grad/professional school spot) one gets after graduating from Wisc will be determined by each student, not the school. Good luck to you.
But if you want to waste more time on it: Michigan’s acceptance rate for in-state students ranges between 40-45%. The overall acceptance rate is pushed way down by the enormous number of OOS and international applicants.
Wisconsin itself has a fairly high number of OOS and international applicants, and this likely explains a some of the difference in acceptance rate between UW-M and Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, etc.
You are in a great, world-renowned university in an iconic college city. Don’t overthink it.
It’s easy - they have seats to fill. They have a yield they know. They work to fill their class.
It’s like a price/demand curve.
Tons and tons and tons of kids go to schools with lesser admission rates - by choice.
My kid turned down a sub 20% and sub 30% for an 80% - and it’s better for her. Not for money or anything else…but because it was right. She just interned at arguably the most prestigious think tank in the country.
Wisconsin is the king of Fortune 500 CEOs btw - not that it should matter.
They also come from schools like Mizzou - which has high acceptance rates. I work for a global company, very recognizable - and our highest exec went to Fairleigh Dickinson and a Harvard Law works for him.
Prestige is a mindset.
My other kid turned down Purdue for engineering - and guess what - works with engineers from Purdue and Michigan out of college and interned and lived with two Ga Tech kids in the summer - and he was invited back and they weren’t - and he was at Alabama - you can’t find it in an engineering ranking.
Stop reading magazines and start reading your textbooks.
This is real life now - and it doesn’t work exactly as you think…even within colleges where a liberal arts school might have an 80% rate but their b or engineering school a much lower rate.
Judge the school by the quality of the coursework and the people around you.
PS - your family couldn’t afford Michigan or didn’t want to - and you’re saving a boat load of money - that means something too!!
Statistically, it would be possible for students at virtually all colleges to absorb an uncertainty regarding relative selectivity. The University of Michigan, for example, places 49th nationally by selectivity in this site: College & University Rankings in 2024. If a student there were to divert his energy toward the 48 schools that place more highly by this measure, then this could create a similar dilemma to that which you have self-generated regarding Madison.
I don’t understand the question. It seems you’re asking, “why are those facts the facts?” It just is for the same reason that any school’s admission rate is higher than that of a school whose rate is lower. The admissions staff know through statistical experience that they have to admit a given % of those who apply to achieve a class size within a target range. Other schools have a different experience with yield so they admit fewer people from the pool. As to whether that will matter, it will be less about Wisconsin’s admission rate and more about how Wisconsin is viewed in a particular area of study. So, for example, if you wanted to be a Wall Street finance bro, you would have been better off at Ross, and not because of Michigan’s overall admission rate relative to UW’s, but because of Ross. There are areas, I’m sure, that favor Wisconsin.
I knew people with this obsession while I was an undergraduate. Those poor souls who would ceaselessly engage others in conversations about how good our school was and perplexed about why other people spoke of Berkeley like it was so much better and our research is on par with Stanford and why Michigan is top 10 in everything when we’re just as good as they are and on and on and on. I knew those people who carried on with it for 4 years and still do to an extent.
Why set yourself up to be one of those people? From all accounts Madison is a fantastic place and the campus is gorgeous and we’ve established it’s a great school. Are you really going to carry around that Michigan chip on your shoulder while you’re at Wisconsin and miss out on fully appreciating … Wisconsin?
The population of Michigan is about twice of Wisconsin. When schools rank high according to someone’s ranking system, it gets more attention. Which draws more apps, especially from big population centers on the coasts. Michigan’s in state acceptance rate is actually not far from 50%. We are from a state adjacent to Wisconsin. The admission rate from MN to UW Madison is some where in the 30-some%. And that varies by program. I know engineering is a harder admit. I don’t think there is any way they aren’t try to keep CS interested student numbers reasonable in admissions even though they are not a “direct admit” program. Admission rate tells you how popular it is to apply there. Not the quality of the faculty, the campus, the experience. Madison makes a lot of top student experiences lists.
This is a numbers game. Ranking systems have historically designed to highlight schools serving the wealthiest students. You’re buying into the ranking system rather than the quality and experience of the program you are sitting in. Comparing it to much higher population flagships makes no sense.
There is nothing wrong with Illinois Weslyan depending on the student. Real life doesn’t work like this in black and white numbers and lists. What you do after your undergrad will be much more on you and less on the name of your school.