UW Madison vs U of MN Twin Cities

College Search & Selection
61

<p>First off, UW-Madison is hardly "just a party school," and I'm not sure where exactly got that idea unless you were just making an assumption off of the popular press. There is a lot of hard partying, of course, but hey, aren't UW-Madison's graduation rates still a lot higher than UMNs? For being "only" a party school full of drunks who don't care about school, UW-Madison students sure do seem to have themselves together academically. Honestly, it seems like you are just trying to find ways to lower UW-Madison, like so many people at UMN unfortunately do.</p>

<p>Anyway, both universities are excellent academically. On a resume, it honestly won't make a difference one bit which school you go to. However, underneath it all, the academics, faculty, and just about everything else IS probably quite a bit better at UW-Madison, and UW-Madison has a WAY bigger, super obvious research presence (almost more than academics, really). But like I said, on a resume, it won't make much of a difference, if at all. Rankings, lists, and all that jazz are incredibly overrated and in the end, if you are going to a school like Minnesota or Wisconsin, its the person and how you present yourself that will determine how you end up much more.</p>

<p>With that said, what you should be asking yourself is this: What kind of experience am I looking for in college? And it is pretty simple:</p>

<p>If you are looking for a college experience full of everything college has to offer such as a distinct college culture, serious sports, an active and involved student body, and so on, then your search is already over: UW-Madison. </p>

<p>If you want to keep hanging out with your friends from your suburban Twin Cities high school and go home every weekend, then your search is again already over: UMN. </p>

<p>It's generally as simple as that.</p>

<p>The fact is, although lacking in racial minorities, UW-Madison's student body is exponentially more diverse than UMNs. UMN mainly has people from Minnesota and it's reciprocity states, and thus ideologically and life-experiencally they are pretty much all the same. Going to UMN, you don't get your eyes opened to all sorts of new experiences and so on.</p>

<p>This is definitely not the case with UW-Madison. Not only does the undergraduate program have thousands and thousands of very gifted undergrads from all over the United States, but from all over the world. And it isn't only slightly noticeable; you will see it pretty much everywhere you go. In fact, UW-Madison (I believe) has the second highest Jewish student body of Public Universities in the entire United States. Koreans, Japanese, Australians, Chinese, all sorts of Europeans, Mexicans, Chileans, and so on and so forth, I've met them all. They all come here because Madison has a nationwide "rep," not only as a party college where you can have fun, but a great academic school and a pretty rad city. </p>

<p>Furthermore, the students at UW-Madison are much, much more active. Student groups are much more successful, there is much more school pride, and there is just that "presence" which makes the college experience so special and easy to look back at with an almost overwhelming nostalgia. In that department, UMN is sorely lacking compared to just about every other Big Ten University. Although UMN students will tell you being in a big city "gives you more to do," I think being in the big city hurts UMN more than it helps it. The big city drowns out the college atmosphere and vibes severely. Plus, what do big cities really offer that you can continually experience over a city like Madison, which offers a lot to do in its own right, anyway? </p>

<p>Also, obviously nothing near UMN can compare to UW-Madison's culinary diversity. From my apartment just off campus, I had six middle eastern, four Japanese restaurants, two Indian restaurants, five or six Italian restaurants, and just about every other ethnic option within a five minute walk. State Street has over 200 businesses on it alone.</p>

<p>Oh, and</p>

<p><a href="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1092/881975040_9368229b14_b.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1092/881975040_9368229b14_b.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

62

<p>I think this says something.</p>

<p>CC board about UMN = 260 topics
CC board about UW-Madison = 1,700 topics</p>

63

<p>I think Wisconsin is the better place to go, but I don't think the amount of topics means anything. All I think that says is that people wanting to go to Wisconsin have a little too much time on their hands.</p>

64

<p>


</p>

<p>Better check your facts, Fox. Approximately 70% of the OOS students at Wisconsin are either from neighboring Minnesota (roughly 40% of all OOS) and neighboring Illinois (roughly 30% of all OOS). Not so much geographic diversity there. And that's not even counting OOS students from other nearby Midwestern states. </p>

<p>As for internationals, they're pretty close--and the numbers are pretty small in either case, 3.46% at Minnesota, 4.34% at Wisconsin. A difference to be sure, but hardly "exponential," and hardly indicative of Wisconsin being a bastion of diversity.</p>

<p>As for racial diversity, it's not even close: Minnesota has roughly 80% more Asian-Americans, 80% more African-Americans, and significantly more American Indians. Wisconsin has a few more Hispanics but those numbers are tiny at either school.</p>

65

<p>Where did you see those statistics? The last time I saw statistics for UW-Madison's student body, 60% of the graduating class was "in-state," which actually counted both Wisconsin and Minnesota. I went to UW-Madison for 5 years and have been all over UMN, and the study body at UMN feels much more 1) commuter-based and 2) midwestern. I went to Madison, and no matter what the stats say, there is an enormous geographic diversity, especially from the coasts. Go look in the UW-Madison forum for the "acceptance stats" thread; like no on in there is from the midwest! We have over 4,000 Jewish students alone, where do you think they all come from?</p>

<p>Both Wisconsin and Minnesota have a long way to go with racial diversity, though, which is why I didn't bring it up nor alluded that Wisconsin was somehow good in that regard. I'm actually shocked Minnesota has less Hispanics, because I barely saw any at UW-Madison. As for having more blacks and Asians, I believe it, but then again, you guys are sitting at over 51,000 while we are more at 41,000.</p>

66

<p>Way off, TheDesertFox.</p>

<p>UW-Madison</a> admissions myths: Applicants from outside Wisconsin are taking up spots that could go to state residents.</p>

<p>"As of fall 2006, 22.8 percent of undergraduates were classified as non-residents; 66.7 percent were Wisconsin residents, and 10.6 percent hailed from Minnesota"</p>

<p>And here's data for minority enrollment at Wisconsin.</p>

<p>Office</a> of the Registrar - University of Wisconsin-Madison</p>

<p>And some data for Minnesota (not quite as comprehensive) University</a> of Minnesota: Academic Affairs & Provost</p>

67

<p>How am I "way off." I admitted in the original post that UW-Madison didn't have much racial diversity. Did you read it? </p>

<p>And on top of that, UW-Madison <em>DEFINITELY</em> has much more geographic diversity than UMN. As someone else in this topic already said, very very very few people at UMN are not from the midwest.</p>

<p>So all this stats-slinging is pointless, really, because you are putting words in my mouth. Like that link says, 29% of 2006's entering class was not from Wisconsin or Minnesota. Do you think 29% of UMN's entering class is not from Minnesota, Wisconsin, ND, or SD? I actually saw statistics for 2004, and 90% of UMN is from Wisconsin and Minnesota. That is a very big difference, and part of the reason Wisconsin can afford to charge its in-state residents $2,000 less than Minnesota does theirs.</p>

<p>Thus proving my point.</p>

68

<p>Excerpted from a Fall 2007 newsletter from the Office of Admission :
<a href="http://www.admissions.wisc.edu/hsnews/hsnewsfall07.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.wisc.edu/hsnews/hsnewsfall07.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Freshman Class of 2007 Profile
... The class of 2007 is very diverse on many measures. While 70% of the freshman class is from Wisconsin and Minnesota, we have students from 43 other states and more than 30 different countries enrolling.</p>

<p>... The top feeder states were Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois, followed by New York, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts."</p>

<p>I believe Wisconsin also has more international students if you count also the graduate schools.</p>

69

<p>"Diversity" is hard to define. Over 50% of the undergraduate students at most universities, private or public, will come from the state itself or from its neighboring states. For example, only 15% of Duke's 6,500 undergraduate students come from NC. However, if you include Georgia, SC, Maryland, Florida and Virginia into the mix, you will find that roughly 60% of Duke students come from the mid-South Atlantic. At Stanford, roughly 3,000 of its 7,000 (45%) undergraduate students come from California. Arizona, Oregon and Washington students probably make up an additional 15% of its undergraduate population. At Cornell, roughly 60% come from NY, the Northeast and the Mid Atlantic. You will be hard pressed to find a university where all parts of the US are equally represented.</p>

70

<p>"The last time I saw statistics for UW-Madison's student body, 60% of the graduating class was "in-state," which actually counted both Wisconsin and Minnesota."</p>

<p>60% isn't that close to 77%, especially when you're talking about how far away it is from 90% (assuming you're right about that number, which I'll believe when you actually present some concrete data).</p>

<p>The site I linked also mentioned that it's misleading to just look at incoming freshmen class (like you're doing), since OOS students are far more likely to graduate early/on time than in-state students. Even though the incoming class is 29% OOS, the actual percentage of students at the university from OOS is closer to 23%.</p>

<p>How exactly am I putting words in your mouth? I never said you were wrong about racial diversity, and I never made any claims that Minnesota was any better. You're the one making implicit assumptions that I'm taking the opposite viewpoint. All I'm doing is pointing out that you make yourself look like an idiot when you fabricate numbers that aren't accurate when the data is readily available online. Quote some actual numbers, and maybe then you'll have a post worth reading.</p>

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<p>Ref: Official Registration Statistics, Fall 2008 (UM-Twin Cities)
OIR</a> - Official Registration Statistics, Fall 2008</p>

<p>Campus Enrollment by Tuition Residency:</p>

<p>Minnesota - 20,347
Reciprocity - 5,564
MSEP - 270
Minitoba - 12
Other Non-Res - 1,536
Non-Res Waivers - 776</p>

<p>*Reciprocity states: Wisconsin, North/South Dakota and Manitoba
*MSEP: Michigan, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska</p>

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<p>91% "residents," and 6.3% non-res. What is non-res waivers, though?</p>

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<p>""Tuition Waivers and Remissions. Tuition may be waived or remitted selectively in order to accommodate state law, to provide financial discounts to students the University is seeking to attract, to offer University employees a benefit, to promote cooperation with other educational institutions, to support the international exchange of students, and to serve humanitarian purposes. As a general rule, a tuition waiver or remission program shall be offered only if the University intends to provide such a benefit to all qualifying students, regardless of financial circumstance."</p>

<p>Tuition scholarships, children of staffs, international exchange agreement...</p>

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<p>Teaching Assistants carrying sufficient teaching loads also get non-res tuition waiver 8^) though there shouldn't be many undergrad TA's.</p>

75

<p>If you think UW's research programs are better than at UMN, you have obviously not visited Minnesota Desert Fox. Go Rankings-Whore somewhere else.</p>

76

<p>The University of Minnesota's 2008 entering freshman class is 5.5% international students, according to a story published in today's Minneapolis StarTribune relying on statistics supplied by the University. That's a higher international percentage than I've ever seen for Wisconsin. I don't have the comparable 2008 figures for Wisconsin, but the 2007 entering class at Wisconsin was 4.34% international.</p>

<p>U</a> goes global to attract a more diverse student body</p>

<p>The full University of Minnesota residency breakdown:</p>

<p>Minnesota 64.8%
Reciprocity states* 21.4%
Other U.S. States 8.3%
International 5.5%</p>

<ul>
<li>reciprocity states (and privince) are Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, and Manitoba</li>
</ul>

<p>And by the way, the 64.8% who are Minnesotans includes a lot of first-generation kids from recent immigrant families. The Twin Cities now have a huge Southeast Asian population, especially a lot of Hmong and Vietnamese, as well as a very large East African population, especially Somali and Ethiopian but a smattering from other African countries as well. This is a lot of what accounts for Minnesota's 9.35% Asian or Asian-American and 4.75% African-American student body. To suggest these kids are "ideologically and life-experientially . . . all pretty much the same" as white middle class Minnesotans and Wisconsinites, as TheDesertFox does in post #61, is just wildly off base.</p>

<p>I'd expect to see the international population continue to grow at Minnesota. It's a well recognized and highly respected brand, especially in China, and it's new tuition structure (approx. $14,600/year non-resident tuition) makes it a bargain for internationals in comparison with other schools.</p>

<p>Did</a> You Know? : University of Minnesota, Twin Cities</p>

77

<p>I don't have anything against U of MN at all. I was just speaking from my own experience. Most of my experience at U of MN was when I applied and made several visits back in 2002 and in my freshman/sophomore years when I still hung out with some of my high school friends who went there(I went to college through 2007). Even the article says, until 2006, you guys had the lowest percentage of internationals. It appears that the U there has been changing a lot (as is a national trend as universities are increasingly competing). If you just started pulling more internationals in in 2006, I wouldn't have known. It is fairly disappointing to see that Minnesota is attempting the spam-mail route of advertisement popularized by Washington University in St. Louis, though, something Wisconsin has luckily never had to resort doing (not to stir the pot).</p>

<p>With that said, what both our universities are doing is probably damaging since clearly none of these people are going to stay in the US.</p>

78

<p>^ Defending against false accusations, certainly.</p>

<p>As for the suggestion that educating internationals is "damaging," I disagree. </p>

<p>First of all, some do stay; a smaller percentage than in the past, perhaps, as economic opportunities now abound in their home countries; but some do stay. Second, there are long-term benefits to increased international understanding, as well as a more educated global workforce creating a rising tide of prosperity that if properly managed should lift all boats. Third, there may be more direct payoffs to the local economy, as university alumni networks and old school friendships spread across international boundaries, expanding two-way opportunities for transboundary trade, investment, and business deals of all kinds. Simply put, the state of Minnesota is almost certainly better off economically due to the relationships that current Minnesota residents have with old school chums in China, and to the receptiveness of the University's rather impressive alumni network in China when Minnesota businesspeople come calling; that kind of goodwill is invaluable, especially in places like China where so much business depends on networks of personal contacts and bonds of trust. And finally, I truly do believe that the opportunities to interact with and learn from international students enriches the educational experience of all the U.S. students attending the University; it's a better and a stronger school for it, and that helps everyone who attends.</p>

79

<p>I agree, mostly. I wasn't all that serious. Well said.</p>

80

<p>bclintonk, how do you know there are less Chinese students in Wisconsin than in Minnesota? Also, how many high profile Chinese students are in Wisconsin? Like the sons or daughters of high ranking officials? The former Premier's son was there, now he controls a major investment bank in China. In China, Wisconsin is far more famous than Minnesota.</p>