After being accepted to two of my reach schools ( Harvey Mudd and Smith, respectively ), and having received minimal financial aid at both (a good scholarship at Smith, but I didnt “qualify” for financial aid despite my parents being barely middle class) I have now whittled my options down to two great schools in my area- the PNW- but they are both ranked much lower. The Honors College at my local state school is actually ranked better than the small liberal arts school that I am also deciding between, but I am having difficulty reconciling my decision to attend either. I am worried I will not be challenged academically at the smaller liberal arts school, but will not get as personal of an education at the bigger state school.
As I am writing this post I am aware that I have two great options, however, it has been very difficult to make a decision. The small (and beautiful!) liberal arts school costs only 6,000 more a year than my state school and affording it will not be an issue at all, however I am worried that I will not be challenged enough there.
I am planning on attending grad school, and I would like to get into a competitive grad program ,but I am struggling to decide on the best fit for me.
The names of the schools might help us.
It is highly likely that you would have very good opportunities at either school. Certainly most state schools, especially state flagships, have some very strong students because that is what they can afford. As costs for university go up over the years, in many cases there are more very strong students going to the relatively affordable in-state universities. I have a daughter at a very small university (what would be called a LAC if it were in the US) and she is getting very good opportunities there and is very happy with her choice. The small class sizes have allowed her to get to know the professors and to get to know other students in the class.
In general getting a job as a professor at a good university is very highly competitive. As such, there are a lot of very good professors at a wide range of schools.
I am not sure that I have helped.
thank you that did- I need to remember how much I appreciate being able to attend either of these schools- it can be really hard when you have many friends around you discussing their admittance to top 25 schools and you are sitting in the corner thinking" If only I could have been able to afford these, I could have been in the same shoes". But the schools are the University of Washington Honors program and the University of Puget Sound
I know someone who went to the University of Washington and really liked it. My impression is that it is quite a good school with a good reputation. When I was a graduate student at a very highly ranked university there were multiple very strong students there who had done their undergrad at their in-state flagship that was ranked slightly lower than U.Washington.
I don’t know anything about the University of Puget Sound.
Puget Sound is a great school. You will be challenged there just as much as U Dub.
Forget rank at this point. When you apply to grad school they will not consult a list to see the rank of your alma mater.
Choose which environment you’d prefer to live in for 4 years and which school has the most classes you are interested in, possible majors, etc.
I don’t know your area of interest but UPS has this really cool program where a small group of students does a study tour of Asia for one whole year. My D would have applied there just because of that, but unfortunately because of timing, for her it would have required a 5th year which we couldn’t afford.
The D of a friend went to UPS some years ago and she worked as an RA which reduced her expenses.
You will not go wrong with either choice.
Thank you!!! Yeah and UPS gave me a great financial package too 
Don’t worry about rankings. Rankings are meaningless. I realize that they are popular, and for those who are beginning their college searches, the US News rankings seem like reliable data points. They are not. I won’t say any more. If you are interested, just Google anything related to the problems with college rankings.
For instance, UPS is not some second- or third- or fourth-tier LAC. It is an excellent school (I thought that you were going to say that you were considering Linfield College, also a fine school but one that accepts 94% of applicants). UPS is included in the book “Colleges that Change Lives,” so you might read the in-depth profile it receives. Willamette is another terrific LAC in the PNW, despite its high acceptance rate (it is also a CTCL school). We don’t–or we shouldn’t–judge a school based on its ranking or on how many applicants it rejects.
I should admit my biases. I am a graduate of a CTCL school. I am also a strong supporter of LACs. My children will hopefully attend a solid LAC. Of course, it is their choice, not mine. However, it is also my choice to disown them if they attend a large university.
Joking aside, U-Dub is a terrific flagship. Honestly, the way you made your original post sound, I thought that you were turning away from Smith and Mudd for much more modest options (and even then, college is what you make of it). When I realized that you were considering UDub’s honors program or UPS, I thought, “Is this girl crazy? She’s considering four excellent schools, not two excellent schools that she cannot afford and two mediocre schools.”
You are in good shape. UDub and UPS are two very different schools. You should have a strong sense what kind of institution is best for you: the smaller, more intimate LAC or the large public flagship.
^ To some extent, the UW Honors Program combines the two:
“The University Honors Program provides a rigorous environment for highly motivated students looking for an interdisciplinary educational experience. Bringing selected faculty into close contact with dedicated students in an atmosphere of small, challenging classes allows the Honors Program to combine the intimacy of a small, interdisciplinary liberal arts college with the strengths of an excellent public research university.”
https://honors.uw.edu/about/
https://honors.uw.edu/apply/freshman/faq/
My Deerfield and Harvard grad father in law went to UW for his PHD. Tells me what a fine uni it is
And honors college too. I like the big flagships. I think they make you scrappy and self reliant. Very useful tools in life.
@Hapworth is usually pretty spot on with his LAC analysis
Big uni or beautiful but smaller LAC. Best of luck wherever you go.
On a night like this, the big uni is beautiful, too:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xbH4tOfmO68
thats why I was considering it highly but I visited and talked to a lot of students and actually got kind of an impersonal vibe- but maybe I dont really like large universities.
Well there you go. Follow your instincts for sure.
Another comment- I was discussing with my parents the nature of UW’s honors program, and we were both wondering about both Puget Sound and UW’s ability to get its students into top graduate programs across the country. My parents are not prestige- oriented, and discouraged me to think about UW for the prestige, but rather to base my decision on fit (which I agree with). I am not even sure that I would be attending the honors program, although I was accepted, but I personally believe that I would thrive in a school that is smaller and is oriented for a more personal experience.
I am almost 100% sure that I want to attend graduate school- but I would like to get into a top program.
I understand that it is based on my performance in school and the experiences I create for myself but I am still worried about gaining entry into these top schools
What kind of graduate school?
You can get into a top graduate school from either. Work/study hard. Earn good grades. When the time comes, study for the GRE (or other tests) and do well. Form strong relationships with at least 2-3 professors (they’ll write your letters of recommendation). Write a strong statement of purpose. Have solid samples of your academic work.
If you do all this, you could be at Podunk College and still go to a fine graduate program. The common misconception is that one must attend a very good/great/elite undergrad institution in order to get accepted into a great graduate program.
I’ll catch heat for this, but LACs have a slight edge here and are absolute pipelines to graduate school. This is where the smaller class sizes, the faculty accessibility, the opportunities to do research (without having to compete with grad students), and the supportive environment definitely help. Plus, many of your classes at an LAC will be much more similar to graduate seminars than traditional university lectures. This is why so many LAC grads make a seamless transition to graduate school; they’ve already been doing it.
You still haven’t said what field you want to major in. LACs are generally better for the humanities, arts, and pure science. They are usually not good for applied science, engineering, computer science. If you definitely want graduate school, LACs are usually better because you can get more personal recommendations from professors.
Between UW and UPS though, I think UW has an edge. UW is a world renowned research university with high rankings in many fields. The professors in UW are as good as any. When I was a graduate student there many decades ago, a professor announced at the end of the class, “I’m moving to Harvard next semester.” And she joked, “if your friend is attending Harvard, he’ll be taking this exact same class from me next year.” When we were touring UW a couple weeks ago, the tour guide said 3 Biology professors were poached by some Ivy league schools. They all stayed in the end (I think the university matched their research funding or built a new lab for them or something like that.) Although the professors at UPS will also be good, but they are not at the same caliber as UW professors.
@bogeyorpar ,
Fanboy that I am of LACs, I have nothing against Ivies. I’m happy for the students who are considering them. That said, it would be stronger evidence if you could share anecdotes of the wonderful profs you had as an undergraduate–not a graduate student, where classes are smaller and you have close relationships with faculty–at UW. Or, because you did not attend UW for undergrad, you might share, as a replacement anecdote, the wonderful profs you had as an undergraduate at whatever public university you did attend.
I am not trying to pick a fight, and I am not trying to tell the OP not to consider UW, which is absolutely a top-notch R1 university. It does indeed have professors who are amazing scholars and researchers. That is not in dispute. In fact, this is why these amazing scholars and researchers choose the R1 setting. No one is arguing that the R1 setting does not have impressive facilities, billion-dollar endowments, exceptionally bright graduate students, and highly-educated scholars and researchers to guide and mentor those graduate students. I too attended large public universities for graduate school. It is indeed impressive.
I will kindly remind you that LACs are undergraduate-focused. Professors at LACs are there to teach (though most also do research and publish as well, just not at the same intensity or level). I think that we would both agree that just because someone attended an Ivy League school for her PhD and then goes on to her dream job as a scholar or researcher at an R1 university does not mean that she is an amazing teacher of undergrads, though certainly, over a four-year period at UW, the OP would probably find a professor or two during her upper class years who would hopefully work with her one on one as a mentor and guide. I think we would also both agree that LACs do perhaps struggle to attract R1 researchers and scholars to their campuses to solely teach undergraduates. I also absolutely agree that the educators at UPS are not the same caliber as UW R1 scholars and researchers.
Again, I have had the pleasure of being a student in both environments: undergrad at an LAC, graduate student at a large public flagship.
OP, I do not know if this would matter to you, but here is some information from UW and UPS (2017 Common Data Sets and UW Honors website) regarding the academic profiles of their enrolled freshmen:
UPS:
ACT (middle 50%): 25-31 (33.33% 30+)
UW GPA (average): 3.51 (30.24% 3.75+)
UW:
ACT (middle 50%): 27-32 (48.59% 30+)
UW GPA (average): 3.79 (68.37% 3.75+)
UW Honors Program:
ACT (middle 50%): 31-34
UW GPA (middle 50%): 3.86-4.00
If you were admitted to Harvey Mudd (ACT 33-35), you should be able to rise to the top of the class at UW or UPS, which would put you in the best position for graduate school. As others have mentioned, you might receive more specific guidance if you indicate what majors you are considering. However, only you can decide which school fits you better. Congratulations and good luck!