Hmm, saw this in my google feed right before heading to bed. Anyone up later (or in a different time zone) want to fact check it? 'Tis a news source, but has the study they linked been confirmed in other studies? If so, I would think people might want to think twice before using it - or at least think once since I’m not sure anyone using it has been thinking sanely.
I would think this would be a big deal in Africa where it’s being used for parasites, so there ought to be more to find - just not for me at bedtime.
Or… do some doctors now suggest using it for birth control?
I had heard about this but haven’t read the study. The drug has been in worldwide use for nearly five decades and appears on the WHO list of essential medicines. I would have thought that if it caused low sperm counts we would have heard about it before.
If those were the only studies done, one would think more would be being done now, no? Or maybe researchers just figure anyone who takes it can just deal with whatever it brings given the current circumstances?
Since it affects males, I suspect it’s temporary - hence - might not be a big issue in Africa.
On a different note, I talked with “Green” son this morning and he related a conversation he had with other “Green” friends of his. (These folks would put most of us to shame with how pro nature and pro planet they are with their lives.) They looked at Ivermectin studies out there on the net and how it’s supposed to affect parasites, viral, and bacterial issues in vitro and came to the common conclusion that they would NEVER touch the stuff. Their reasoning? If it seems to affect “everything” rather than targeting “something” who knows what it is affecting with “all” other cells and systems in their bodies. To them and their nature loving selves, that’s a huge NO.
Some of them have gotten the vax (like my boy) and others haven’t (don’t want to interfere with nature). Those who have feel that the mRNA vaccines are worth it because they specifically target one thing, teach the body to recognize it, then are expelled from the body. They aren’t playing with nature as a whole like Ivermectin appears to.
It’s the first time I’ve heard his reasoning, but gotta admit, it makes sense to me.
Ivermectin is used off-label for it’s anti-inflammatory properties. That is why it is used for rosacea. This is similar to the way antibiotics such as doxycyline are used for acne. In treating these conditions, subtherapeutic doses of the medication are found to be equally effective because the goal is not to kill normal flora organisms (demodex mite in the case of rosacea & p.acnes bacteria in the case of acne). But rather - quiet the inflammatory reaction some individuals have to such organisms within the hair follicles-thus reducing the redness & pimples that result.
Ivermectin is used (again off-label) for a multitude of conditions (mostly autoimmune) that are driven by over activity of a persons normal immune response. It has been helpful for intractable itching related to several such conditions that are not responsive to typical treatments such as anti-histamines. It has also shown some benefit for nerve type pain when other treatments have failed and there is thought the pain is due to inflammation of the nerve sheath. Like many medications, these off-label uses are often discovered serendipitously after a medication has been used for decades, & are wholly unrelated to the original indication of the medication.
I am not trying to promote ivermectin or any treatment for COVID - just trying to explain the theory behind using a medication to calm the cytokine storm (rather than killing the virus directly). In infectious disease, the damage is often done not only by the organisms directly- but rather, also by the body’s own immune reaction in trying to get rid of such organism. Sometimes this immune response is “too aggressive” - and this is what causes morbidity/mortality. There is significant individual/genetic variability in the degree of this inflammatory response. Another example includes leprosy - where there are different presentations of the condition based upon an individual’s immune reaction to the organism. In COVID - much of the damage in severe cases, is thought to be in those who for reasons we don’t fully understand yet, mount an extreme immune reaction to the virus (trigger a cytokine storm).
I had seen where this had been being tried in hospitals back when it first looked promising - way back near the beginning of the pandemic when we were all hopeful such an easy fix would help, but the results showed it didn’t work. Have they changed their minds from other, more recent trials?
I don’t believe there can be a fully vetted review unless accompanied by human participants exclusively consuming a combination of hay, carrots and apples.
Everything I know is through social media posts. It matters because people’s actions unfortunately negatively alter the course of other’s in a pandemic. The “my body, my choice” argument goes out the window during a pandemic.
Then it might be good to spend less time on social media. It’s not healthy to worry about what other people do, whether you disagree with their actions or not. You have absolutely no control over it either way.
I haven’t seen that happening on this thread at all. But one has to wonder if reading about it is worrying you? If so, you can mute this thread. Just click on the “Tracking” button below the “Reply to Thread” section and select Muted. You won’t have to worry about things you have no interest in and those of us who do have an interest can continue the thread.
Lol, coolguy is telling @Tigerwife92 that she shouldn’t worry about what other people do.
If we did that this website wouldn’t exist.
But seriously, I think it’s ok to think about what other people do. When it affects you.
For instance, a neighbor of mine ended up in the ICU this week. Maybe heart issues, not entirely sure yet. But if she had been in a place where all beds are taken up by Covid patients, where would that leave her. Probably not getting the level of care that she is.
That’s where what happens affects everyone on a local personal level.
@Creekland maybe your post was edited or maybe I misunderstood it. But my opinions still stand why this matters to all of us
Maybe I am reading it wrong, but this paper seems to suggest that with regard rosacea, ivermectin is directly killing Demodex mites, and it is not clear whether killing the mites reduces the inflammatory reaction, or whether there are independent anti-inflammatory properties.
Ivermectin is thought to exhibit its effects in papulopustular rosacea through both anti-inflammatory and acaricidal actions against Demodex mites [21]. However, it cannot be ruled out that the anti-inflammatory effect of ivermectin is in fact due to its acaricidal action, thereby decreasing the innate immune system response to Demodex mites [21].
You didn’t misunderstand and as of this point, my post wasn’t edited. (I have no plans to edit it and I don’t think it’s outside the TOS.)
Humans are humans. From birth we look at what other people do and make decisions. It’s how we guide our own lives figuring out what we like and don’t. It’s life whether it deals with Covid response or what we’re making for dinner.
Like you, I sometimes muse about ICU availability, esp since I’ve seen it be 0 or 1 locally and similar numbers for about an hour around us. Due to being vaccinated, I’m not worried about Covid hospitalization, but what if there were a car wreck? How many people would have to be taken further to find room and would they survive it?
There is another thread on this forum entitled “Vaccine Reluctance”. I was thinking about this a few days ago. Initially when the vaccine was rolled out, there was hesitancy/reluctance, understandable when something new is introduced to the community. But by now we have seen enough evidence to confirm that the vaccine is both safe and effective. Yes, there is still hesitancy/reluctance in certain pockets of the country, and in POC again IMO this is still understandable. But most of the resistance, and the vocal resistance, is now harbored within those who refuse to get the vaccine because of misinformation, ignorance, political reasons, etc. This thread, in retrospect, was instigated because of the shift in the social climate from reluctance to hypocrisy. You simply can’t deride public health experts and belittle their pleas and warnings but then once infected accept and demand the best that science has to offer. And along the way, negatively affect the health and rights of others.
