Even Dr. Fauci said the new normal may be 3 jabs.
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Yes he says âmay beâ the new normal. Specifically he says per the article you provide:
âWhite House chief medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said he would not be surprised if the recommended full regimen for the Pfizer and Moderna Covid vaccines becomes three doses.â
âNot be surprisedâ is not exactly the degree of scientific certitude that should be driving public health policy or messaging.
The CDC and FDA are saying that they currently donât have the data to support the White Houseâs publicly disclosed booster program. Talk about the proverbial cart being ahead of the horse.
I do believe the science is the science and our political leaders should be driven by the US based experts informed by other countries including Israel. Not a political declaration in the hope of finding support in the scientific community which so far at best includes words like ânot be surprisedâ by Dr F.
I think we should expect better.
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You may be comfortable waiting indefinitely. Others are not, particularly if they live in high covid areas or are subject to high risks. Every ER doctor I know has received a booster already. The current data is sufficient for them.
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Then by your own words in this thread, he wouldnât be taking ECMO away from a vaccinated person anyway.
It appears the scientists are trying to use data to identify the most effective and safe dosage and timing for people other then the most vulnerable or exposed (like an ER doctor).
Non medical professionals who have preached the importance of following the science who are now âspitballingâ details such as timing and dosage do so at their own peril. If you are not an ER doctor or vulnerable person you are not following the science and you are jumping the line.
If we arenât going to be sympathetic to the anti vaxer who falls ill, we should be equally critical of the non imuno compromised person who disregards the current expert advice and jumps the booster line if and when they have an adverse reaction. I clearly hope that doesnât happen!
In both instances people are acting âfluidlyâin what they perceive to be their self interest and contrary to the prevailing expert advice. It doesnât make them bad people just human. To judge them differently however is the very essence of hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy is about moral consistency. The Florida man described by OP lied about vax status and tried to jump the line for treatment. Walking in and getting a âboosterâ that has not as of yet been approved by misstating ones health or vaccine status is no less morally inconsistent.
I am intellectually comfortable waiting for a consensus expert opinion on dosage and timing (following the science) and ethically comfortable being truthful when taking my spot in line.
Lastly starting a response with âyou may be comfortableâ is contrary to CC terms as it engages in personal debate. My initial post wasnât directed at any individual and was largely factual yet your response was directed at me personally. Thank you.
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There are multiple studies from Israel demonstrating efficacy of a third Pfizer shot, access them here: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94344
The Israel third shot plan is supported by Pfizer data, which the FDA will discuss at this Sept 17th meeting. FDA In Brief: FDA to Hold Advisory Committee Meeting to Discuss Pfizer-BioNTechâs Application for COVID-19 Booster | FDA
As UCBalumnus posted on the inside medicine thread, itâs looking like the Pfizer dosing regimen might be a 3 shot course to be considered fully vaccinated. The debate over Covid-19 vaccine boosters and what to call them
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There was talk of this at the ACIP meeting earlier this week. The ACIP is going to discuss boosters specifically (this weekâs meeting wasnât mainly about boosters), They will be looking at data re boosters. The discussion on what would boosters (3rd doses) really do, who should get them, etc. Very interesting. And they put up some preliminary 3rd dose priority ideas. They mentioned a September meeting, but there is no date yet on their calendar.
I saw an article yesterday that the initial 3rd doses may only be for Pfizer. Moderna submitted its data for boosters on Wednesday. One thing that is a little confusing is that the ACIPâs approval isnât necessary for FDA action, as the FDA gave Pfizer full approval rather than EUA only before the ACIP met. So this weekâs ACIP meeting was in effect giving their blessing to that (vote was unanimous).
One interesting tidbit Iâve picked up is that the data Moderna gave to (FDA?) is that there is data on a 1/2 dose 3rd dose.
Since the FDA is meeting Sept 17, they could give the go-ahead for Pfizer-only 3rd doses starting on Sept 20 (the date the WH gave). It will be an interesting meeting, as all will not agree on the need for 3rd doses (boosters) for all.
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There are non Covid reasons why people need ECMO. It would be tragic if someone in that category was unable to access it because someone who could have prevented their need for it with a vaccine refused to do so. We have already seen that people with serious non covid health issues are having trouble in some places accessing health care due to the deluge of people in the hospitals with a vaccine preventable list of complications.
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- A CDC scientist, Dr. Sara Oliver, said Monday the data needed to properly evaluate Covid-19 vaccine booster shots for the general population is limited.
- President Joe Biden is asking health officials to clear the shots for wide distribution beginning the week of Sept. 20.
- Oliverâs presentation at a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advisory group meeting suggests the panel may limit its initial endorsement of extra shots to vulnerable groups and health-care workers.
In other words the CDC hasnât endorsed any boosters as of yet and or if they do it will likely be for only a subset of vulnerable people. The politicians are the ones calling for boosters not the US scientists at this time.
Our public health experts disagree with the availability and or thoroughness of the available data or conclusions made in Israel. There is clearly pressure from US politicians upon the CDC to endorse the âboosterâ plan yet the scientists are not convinced.
I have been told over and over again (including by the White House) that the CDC is the global gold standard. If however we are now embracing the science that supports our stated political ambitions (Israel response) at the expense of the CDCs guidance we will have abandoned any hope of the CDC being credible.
You open the door for the lunatic fringe to argue for horse dewormer as a therapeutic because neither it or boosters has CDC endorsement. Either the CDC is relevant and their authoritative voice is preserved or âfollow the scienceâ becomes follow the science that validates your personal view no matter how whacky and itâs source.
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I am not sure what you are saying. Do you mean the FDA where you say the CDC? I have never heard anyone say the CDC is the gold standard, nor should CDC ever be endorsing boosters or any treatmentsâŠthe FDA approves drugs/vaccines/devices. CDC staff are ill equipped to speak about boosters, let alone recommend them (prior to FDA approval). That is part of the reason two seasoned FDA vaccine staffers are leaving over the next couple of months.
Pfizer has submitted the third dose data to the FDA, and that is what will be discussed at the Sept 17 meeting.
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I am perplexed that you equate the very intelligent and capable doctors and scientists in Israel, Germany, England, France, etc, with fringe theories espoused for covid treatment. The US does not have a monopoly on medical knowledge. Perhaps if we had been willing to listen to experts from other countries earlier, such as the Asian doctors advising masking, we would be in far better shape. Some prefer a more global assessment of treatment and prevention options.
By the way, ER doctors are not officially eligible for boosters yet per the FDA. Yet they get them.
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Exactly. I expect the Israeli 3rd Pfizer dose data will be part of FDAâs review.
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Apologies I meant the FDA per the following:
âThe Biden administration has publicly said that third doses will not go ahead without FDA approval and a vote by ACIP.â
Acronym brain fart.
R sorry to perplex you. I donât think lying to get ahead of a line in advance of conclusive evidence to ensure distribution equitability is anything short of hypocritical. Keep in mind the thread title.
Do I think ultimately boosters are approvedâŠabsolutely. When this happens I will take my place in line
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Well, our local doctors have already encouraged everyone to get the booster now an effort to reduce their crushing workload. Throwing out doses rather than giving them to people they may help is far more objectionable to me.
Austria and Croatia already require boosters for visitors to be considered vaxxed. More specifically, if your vax date is more than 9 months old, it does not count as valid.
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Apologies I was unaware you are traveling to Austria and Croatia. Please be safe!
I hope your local doctors are better informed then the FDA officials who are resigning.
â In a statement on Tuesday, the FDA said that Marion Gruber, director of the agencyâs Office of Vaccines Research and Review, and her deputy director, Phil Krause, will leave in October and November, respectively.
Siegel told âAmericaâs Newsroomâ that the seeming clash between the FDA and the White House has created âa mess for the administration.â
The FDAâ s covid performance thus far has not exactly inspired confidence in many people. The Israeli government appears to be more capable of responding in a timely manner less influenced by political considerations, and they are giving boosters to those over 40.
It is tragic, and point about ECMO well taken, but sadly distribution of medical care is not equitable and those âwith meansâ will get it whether the care is for something that was preventable or not. Iâm not sure that being divisive about vaccinated vs non-vaccinated helps us climb out of this pandemic at all.
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Quarantine does not mean go on vacation (and endanger others).
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The Israeli booster response has been very specific to their populations willingness to vax and somewhat political in nature. The over ridding goal has been the avoidance of a second lock down to preserve their economy while the scientists still have their doubts.
https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
Why are these posts in the Vaccine Hypocrisy thread vs. the Boosters thread?
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