If we apply the same “logic” to other aspects of our lives, we would have to ban alcohol, drugs & driving - all of which are responsible for a tremendous number of hospitalizations and deaths in this cohort alone. We see that even fully vaccinated individuals still can be asymptotically infected and shed virus ….so, the schools that are requiring the vax using the carrot of “so you don’t have to be tested” may be in for a shock this fall for I believe they still SHOULD be tested. Positive cases will continue as we see they are already breaking through.
Do you have a source for info on the fully vaccinated people who do get infected and the levels of virus they shed?
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@missingthe90s, I’ll bite. What is the argument for not equipping cars to detect alcohol consumption and prevent driving for people who have had too much? I would be for it. The fact that our society makes poor decisions about legacy choices (how we treat alcohol or the flu based upon past habits) should not set the standard for new decisions. Letting people who have had too much to drink drive is a dumb societal choice. Fails any kind of cost-benefit analysis we could make and especially a moral calculus.
Why would we say anything different about failure to get a COVID vaccination?
In contrast, driving sober does not fail the same cost-benefit calculus. Driving has many societal benefits. There are things we could probably do to diminish the costs.
@MarylandJOE, I haven’t really thought about flu vaccinations but why shouldn’t we also be concerned about 35K deaths per year from people who don’t get flu vaccines? We do make all health care workers get flu vaccinations. Other than a holdover from prior habits, why should we not have negative judgments about people who don’t have the flu vaccinations? If flu vaccines take an hour for most people and the cost is basically that some people have short-term discomfort for a day or 2 and it saves 35K lives a year, what is the argument that getting vaccinated is not a socially desirable choice and not getting vaccinated is not a socially undesirable choice? (ignore people who shouldn’t for medical reasons like Guillan-Barre syndrome)? I think the only distinction might be the lower effectiveness of flu vaccines relative to COVID vaccines.
People probably made the same arguments against seat belts years ago that you are now making. “People have been driving for years and haven’t needed seatbelts.” If only seat belt non-wearers suffered the consequences, I’d be OK with them not wearing them. However, the rest of us tend to have to pay for their poor choices.
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Missingthe90s is the same person who keeps reregistering after being banned. So he is no longer with us.
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Even if they are no longer allowed here, this is already addressed by US laws banning drinking/drugs and driving and underage drinking. For driving by itself, safety features are required for street legal vehicles. They aren’t optional. They’re required.
It’s not a free for all legally. IRL I know someone who was DUI and caused a non-fatal crash. He did time in prison for it. Had people died he’d have done more time in prison.
Regarding flu shots, they are also required in many health care or senior living residences. I suspect if they were as effective as the Covid vaxes are they’d be even more required in other settings.
Please don’t feed the banned troIIs.
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I assumed since they were no longer here they wouldn’t be reading the response, but if other people were curious about what had been said it was worth addressing the point they brought up since they implied it supported “their” cause when it doesn’t if you think about it.
Since the troII apparently has no life having registered and been banned about 8 million times, I would posit that you can assume no such thing. 
On top of that, this troII has proven many times that they are not the sharpest tool in the shed
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You’re not suggesting that frequent posters here have no life, are you? 
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Nope. But I am suggesting that troIIs have no life. Particularly this one. It takes a lot of work to keep creating new email addresses and try to evade the automod who usually captures these troIIs before their first post is even visible.
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On these super hot humid days where I have outside chores done by 7am in the morning, so spend the bulk of the rest of the day in my armchair amusing myself on the computer, I’d probably say I have no life. 
I guess to prove otherwise I’ll head to the local farmer’s market (inside) to pick up lunch and at some point grab some other heat escapees here at home to play Dice Forge or something useful pretending I have a life.
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I will try to work that into a conversation today! Very descriptive metaphor.
Regarding the use of reports of adverse reactions to the vaccine, which have not been verified, as a source of data:
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My very reluctant daughter who had her first shot on June29 had no reaction at all. She was very scared that she’d be sick for days and one of her excuses was that she couldn’t miss work.
She just called to ask me when she could get the second vaccination.
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My son in Beirut was SO HAPPY to get the first Pfizer shot this morning. Just ecstatic.
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I’m big into science and health.
I had covid. Went to ER twice with it. Still have symptoms 8 months later. I had prolonged antibodies detected for at least 5 months after.
I know science is saying I have a low risk of getting or giving someone Covid at this point. I have had a pulmonary embolus. My dad recently had one as well. I won’t lie, I’m more terrified of getting another blood clot than getting covid again. I have been on low dose aspirin now for several months. I’m still scared of vaccine side effects but I’m heading in next week for my first dose. I have had to be masked at work (everyone does, even those fully vaxxed).
Do I care about others? Yes. But science is showing I likely have a less than 3% chance of getting covid again but I’m willing to get vaccinated regardless. I don’t think I was totally careless waiting.
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So you still haven’t got vaccinated/
Going to the ED takes up resources from others. Sorry you have had covid, 2 x , but you could have prevented that. Did the first time in the hospital not smack your in the head to say GET A VACCINE
If you’re fortunate like my long hauler son was, the vax will get rid of the long haul symptoms. It didn’t happen overnight, but they went away within a few weeks - shortly after his second dose of Moderna they were all gone.
I wish you well!
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NO, I did NOT get Covid twice. And my second visit to the ED was to rule out a blood clot because my doctor is aware my chances of a blood clot are higher than my changes of getting Covid twice even without the vax.
After seeing the data, I am going ahead with Moderna. Now that my risks of blood clots are lessened by being on the aspirin.
Sadly, I have more friends who have had worse symptoms and issues post vaccine.
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