Both CDC and FDA said yesterday they see no need for a booster at this point (which is good they aren’t going to necessarily listen to the vaccine manufacturers).
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S has a friend whose dad refused to get the vaccine. He believed that the Covid situation was political. The last time his son talked to him, they argued about the need for him to get vaccinated. Shortly after that, the dad died from Covid. This was within the last couple weeks. It’s real, and it’s still lethal.
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There are two potential issues with immunity from either vaccination or natural infection.
- It is not known how long immunity lasts. We are still finding (and increasing) the lower bound of immunity length based on the time since the earliest natural infections and vaccinations, but we do not really know the upper bound before the likelihood of breakthrough infections becomes high enough to be concerned with. If an upper bound for immunity length is found, boosters may be recommended based on that time frame.
- New variants are somewhat less affected by either vaccination (based on vaccines targeting early variants like B.1) or natural infection (with early variants like B.1), although immune response is still good for fully vaccinated people (although worse for those who had one dose of a two dose vaccine). If a variant with greater vaccine evasion occurs, then boosters for that variant may become necessary. Even with the current circulating variants, some people may want to get boosters for them if available. However, boosters for new variants are not yet available, other than in a few clinical trials.
For comparison, flu is one of the worst for both of the above – immunity fades quickly, and it quickly mutates to evade prior immunity. That is why flu vaccination, at least with current flu vaccines, must be done yearly if one wants its effects (and even then, if the flu variants targeted by the vaccines are the wrong ones, the vaccine may be less effective).
Not if the studies show it would be more effective. Currently it’s still being looked at.
For me and my family there have been no vax ill effects other than a sore arm. However I’ve had a long hauler son and lost an uncle to Covid, so I’m 100% Team Vax - specifically Pfizer for most of us, though Moderna for oldest S, his wife, and FIL.
If others want to take their chances with Covid and/or its variants, so be it.
ETA The uncle was a blood relative - my dad’s brother. His wife survived, but she married into the family so isn’t genetically related to me. If genetics are involved as they likely are, the two cases my family has had haven’t had good results. No one else I know of in my “blood” family has had Covid.
I haven’t read the whole thread, but wanted to run this scenario by all of you. We have a group of people meeting again and two are not vaccinated. Should those two people avoid each other? One is 90 years old, has had covid, but could use some guidance on this issue.
I would have no issues going even now to get another shot if I thought it would help. I did allergy shots that entailed 2 shots, twice a week for 4 years. Shots don’t bother me at all, especially if I could just pop on down to CVS to get it.
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It’s interesting how the UK has plans of going forward with a booster program starting in September with those over 70 and then working down to those over 50.
This makes me think a booster might end up being recommended eventually despite what the cdc is saying now.
My question is…
In many people that chose the mRNA vaccines the first dose had minimal side effects (sore arm). The second dose on average had more negative pronounced negative effects (aches, fever, headache, etc for 12 or do hours). Would a third dose have even more substantial side effects?
Obviously everyone was/is different. Some didn’t have any issues and others had more issues. I’m just talking in general, for the average person.
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@MACmiracle, what are your moral objections to J&J? I got J&J because that is what Mass General was cooking in the kitchen that day.
Everyone else in the family had Pfizer. ShawWife had a modest 2nd vax reaction. ShawD who is in her 20s had a much stronger 2nd vax reaction. Neither ShawSon nor I had any reaction.
I’m definitely up for a booster as soon as it is recommended. Discussed with my doctor who said a) the Canadians are combining and evidence she saw suggests that J&J followed by mRNA was very effective; and b) wait until the CDC issues its guidelines. She’s surprised that they have not already.
I have thought all along that if the virus mutates, we were going to have to get a booster. Time will tell for sure, but we need a flu shot every year because the influenza virus mutates. This vaccine was developed for the virus that was predominant more than a year ago. I’ll wait for more definitive research, but really its been more than a year, so I will be surprised if we don’t need a booster.
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But then is a booster the exact same formula as the other two doses or has it been modified to address new variants? It appears currently they are just talking about the same formula.
I don’t. With my immunotherapy I get 5 shots every month.
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Pfizer has stated their booster is modified for variants. I assume that is the case with the others as well.
Best available information suggests that prior natural infection appears to have similar immunity effect as having had the first dose of a two dose vaccine – probably pretty good effectiveness against older variants, but not so good against the B.1.617.2 / Delta variant that is more common now (unless perhaps the prior natural infection was with B.1.617.2 / Delta).
To be conservative, the two unvaccinated people may want to keep distance from each other, and it is best if the gathering were outdoors.
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The J&J vaccine relies on the PER.C6 cell line for the manufacture of the vaccine. It is a proprietary cell line owned by Janssen and was developed from the retinal cells of an 18 week old fetus aborted in 1985.
That is what I would advise … outside, and distanced. If it’s indoors, I would suggest the unvaccinated people wear masks. And if anyone in the group has health issues that would be exacerbated by Covid, they should maintain their distance & mask inside. Maybe not CDC guidance, but … Better safe than sorry.
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Thanks. Not my issue but good to know.
Man and his wife “dragged their feet” on getting vaccinated and ended up holding hands in the ICU from their beds. Wife is NURSE.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/us/missouri-covid-surge/index.html
I believe the booster recommendation was in response to what Israel is seeing, which may be due to fading immunity:
From the WSJ article: “During the period that coincided with the Delta outbreak, 1,271 of 1,528 total new infections were fully vaccinated individuals, as were 23 of 37 hospitalizations and 11 of 17 cases of severe illness, the ministry said.” Based on this, I’m wondering if I should recommend to my mother that she start wearing a mask again. I don’t want to freak her out because she has just started socializing again, but some believe the high number of cases in vaxxed is older adults who were vaccinated earliest and/or aren’t getting a strong immune response. Thoughts?