Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

[catahoula]

@scubasue

We covered this upthread. That claim has been analyzed in depth. It is a complete myth that is not even remotely true.

Guess I better read it.

[catahoula]

@MWolf

hat was half of all the adult infections. Second of all, the people who were exposed were a group who have a very high rate of vaccination. [quote]Given that the group who were exposed were about 80%-85% vaccinated, the fact that they represented only 50% of the infected means that unvaccinated people were at least 4X more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated people.

There was enough in my post to indicate the point was whether or not the vaccines produce an abiding enough response to make them a hill to die on. In that respect, slice and dice of the last reported numbers is kind of pointless.

I assume that you meant that 25% of all infected people were vaccinated.

Correct, and thanks, but what I recall hearing was for Los Angeles County alone. Still might be off but your quoted didn’t make that distinction.

@MWolf

From Merriam Webster:

Definition of vaccine

1**:** a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body’s immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease

Good one. Seems the definition doesn’t include any qualifier as to an ‘abiding’ effect.

Fwiw: the Ronco guy, the one who’s commercials included … but wait, there’s more!, passed away this week.

[quote] Definition of vaccine

1 : a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body’s [immune response](Immune Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster response) against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as

a : an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see attenuated sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin) a trivalent influenza vaccine oral polio vaccine Many vaccines are made from the virus itself, either weakened or killed, which will induce antibodies to bind and kill a live virus. Measles vaccines are just that, weakened (or attenuated) measles viruses.

b : a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized [messenger RNA](Messenger Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster RNA)) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus (spike protein)

Special enough that Merriam qualified it by the distinction… but still nary a word as to ‘abiding’.

Nevertheless, night’s still young, more footnotes may be coming.

Look, I’m not anti-vaccine in general, just anti-vaccine specifically. I’ve had it, content with whatever natural immunity I’ve earned, and not interested in being forced to eat something that might disagree with me.

That the vaccine might be the equivalent of a vitamin D shot that I have to keeping topping off every 4 to 6 months, isn’t really a selling point at this time. And if it turns out, in the next couple of months, that the protection against a severe case wanes like the protection against infection I’ll turn even more of a stink eye to it.

[Creekland]

@catahoula

tomorrows numbers will be worse than today’s

Probably, but it isn’t due to the vaccinated people. From the data I’ve seen here and elsewhere the vast majority of hospitalized and dying people are the unvaccinated. The rare cases where it’s someone vaccinated there are other health issues involved like immunocompromised (vs the typical co-morbidities).

If everyone who could had gotten vaccinated, we’d hardly know Covid was still out there even with multiple case - Delta variant or not. But since so many are still going to the hospitals and having a tough time, yeah, we know it’s out there.

[vpa2019]

Because they haven’t bothered to study it because it’s not life threatening like clotting or myocarditis. Doesn’t mean it’s not a side effect.

[ucbalumnus]

@catahoula

Correct, and thanks, but what I recall hearing was for Los Angeles County alone. Still might be off but your quoted didn’t make that distinction.

Delta Variant Surges In LA And More Vaccinated People Are Testing Positive | LAist says that 20% of cases in June in Los Angeles County were in vaccinated people. About 64% of the population in Los Angeles County had at least one dose in mid-May, according to http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/coronavirus/vaccine/vaccine-dashboard.htm , so about that percentage was likely fully vaccinated in mid-June.

That means that vaccinated people were 86% less likely to get COVID-19 (20% of cases out of 64% of the population, versus 80% of the cases out of 36% of the population) in Los Angeles County in June.

[catahoula]

Honestly?

I believe we could have vaccinated every single current person in the US, on the same day, and it will still grind through. Borders are porous enough for it.

Life will get better but I fear we’ve damaged a generation of kids for no reason other than our own fear of death. As successors to the ‘greatest generation’, I believe we seriously suck.

[JBStillFlying]

I was flying to the western continental US last week and was sitting at a gate next to mine. Everyone was coming up to get their vaccine status verified. Destination: Honolulu.

[catahoula]

1/5, instead of a 1/4 - I seem to stand corrected.

When the point is trajectory, I don’t think it matters.

[mtmind]

Meanwhile, in past two hours, I have read two different posts on different threads falsely linking the vaccine to “fertility issues.” The power of anecdote + speculation is strong. But you be you.

[Mwfan1921]

Not only fertility issues, but communicable fertility issues spread by vaccinated to those unvaccinated.

And cardiovascular risk in unvaccinated peeps caused by spike protein shedding from vaccinated peeps.

I can’t even.

[vpa2019]

How can the scientists know if fertility issues exist? We’ve had maybe a year of vaccine data so far. The idea we know everything about this virus and the vaccines after 18 months is ridiculous. The clotting and myocarditis issues weren’t included as side effects initially either. Knowledge is evolving over time. It’s the continued insistence that everything worth knowing about the virus and the vaccines has been already discovered that’s contributing to the problem of vaccine reluctance. Medicine is mainly best guess work with current facts at the end of the day.

[BunsenBurner]

Acceleration of Alzheimer’s? Sounds like Covid does it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/health/covid-cognitive-decline-alzheimers/index.html

Super plausible. Oxygen deprivation of the brain can do horrible things.

[JBStillFlying]

It’s possible to tell the difference between pure speculation and what may be of interest to a medical researcher. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Mwfan1921]

I want to clarify that I was highlighting a new (to me) and false issue surrounding communicable fertility issues (from those vaccinated to those unvaccinated).

I agree we don’t know everything about the vaccines and covid.

[mtmind]

It is such absolute nonsense. Yet there are quite a few otherwise intelligent posters in this thread who are sure they know best, and that they and everyone else here is just so educated that nothing anyone writes could possibly be misconstrued, and that they couldn’t possibly be adding to the problem by posting their own anecdotes and speculation on a public chat board? It boggles the mind.

And now of course even the mention of the insanity immediately attracts more. Sheesh.

[JBStillFlying]

Not sure this is quite accurate. That Provincetown data caused the CDC to kind of freak out. The recommendation was actually for universal re-masking (Walensky didn’t announce that, but it’s right there in the slides). Now maybe that was an over-reaction, as vaccination still is quite protective against disease, hospitalization and death. But the rate of transmission was found to be nearly identical between vaccinated and non-vaccinated, and CDC is definitely stating that breakthrough infections may be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases. For the vulnerable (the elderly, the immune-compromised) the more highly infectious and likely more severe Delta variant is very concerning: it’s not at all clear that they are as protected as we thought, even if their loved ones are vaccinated.

[tarator]

Spike protein shedding is a serious threat. Somebody can step on one of the spikes and hurt their foot.

[vpa2019]

My post wasn’t in response to yours. I apologize if it came off that way.

[tarator]

@vpa2019

How can the scientists know if fertility issues exist?

Are there any vaccines that cause infertility? What is the mechanism that causes it?