About 20% of the local employees of this health system are unvaccinated. I find 20% to be a significant number in this work sector; hence, many. I got this stat from a colleague at my college who teaches in the nursing program and who is regularly in the hospital for clinical rotations. Of this 20%, my understanding is that there are lots of vocal employees claiming intent to leave employment over the vaccine mandate. A petition was posted on Facebook, housed on Change.org, protesting the vaccine mandates and I just checked the numbers - it currently has just over 10,750 signatures. I suspect many of those signing have been vaccinated, but they are just supporting âliberty.â
1 Like
I bought masks in January2020. It was a respiratory virus from the very beginning. People were dying of pneumonia. The CDC and Fauci were slow and inept from the beginning starting with the testing and masking fiascos.
3 Likes
Luckyjade beat me to it 
1 Like
Itâs not a âknown fact.â According to your link, asians have a much higher rate of vaccination than do whites. Hispanic/latinas have a first vaccination rate the same as whites, and the same adult rate. African Americans lag behind but 36% have received at least one vaccination, and 39% of AA adults are fully vaccinated.
3 Likes
I find it quite amusing that the same people that claim that people donât get vaccinated because Fauci lied at some point in the past, claim that people are smart enough to decide if they should get vaccinated.
If they are smart enough, why would they need to trust (or distrust) Fauci?
Except Dr. Fauci has admitted that he told the fib in Mar-20 primarily to protect the mask stock of health care workers.
I get the greater good, and the public health issues. (I have two PH degrees.) But the point is that many folks can use such subterfuge to reject stuff that officials say today: âIf he was stretching the truth last year, how can we be so sure heâs not doing it now? Why should we believe him now?â
Yes, at that time not believed to be airborne like measles or smallpox, BUT it was âthought to be respiratory droplets, which may travel up to six feet from someone who is sneezing or coughing.â (source, UCSF) And to combat travel of respiratory droplets, several Asian countries were masking while Dr. Fauci (and others) said Not needed in the US.
1 Like
In MN, looking at the data on an âage-adjustedâ basis to account for age disparities among the ethnic groups, POC (not including Asian) are 1.5 - 2x as likely to get Covid as whites, and more than 4x as likely to be hospitalized. They are 4-5x as likely to end up in ICU and 2-2.5x as likely to die. These disparities are well-known and hold in other localities as well.
Vax rates in MN have helpfully been broken down by ethnicity/race within each age group. Those who have received the full vaccine series, as a percent of their respective population:
12+ (all eligible)
Asian 70%
White 61%
Latinx 53%
Black 48%
AI/Alask 47%
Multiple 17%
So it appears that Whites are more likely to be vaxed than some other ethnicities. However, the age breakdown tells a more nuanced story:
12-18
Asian 59%
White 39%
Latinx 34%
Black 28%
AI/Alask 32%
Multiple 14%
19-44
Asian 64%
White 52%
Latinx 50%
Black 40%
AI/Alask 39%
Multiple 16%
45-64
Asian 81%
White 61%
Latinx 70%
Black 67%
AI/Alask 55%
Multiple 21%
65+
Asian 96%
White 87%
Latinx 78%
Black 92%
AI/Alask 76%
Multiple 27%
The only uncomplicated ethnic groups when it comes to vaccination are Asians and âMultiple.â Whites donât represent as strongly as the conventional narrative would suggest for the 45-64 range. Blacks trail till 65+ and then almost catch up to Asians. I really think you have to look at the ages as well as ethnicity/race to understand how vaccine acceptance can vary. Covid here does tend to hit different ethnic and racial populations at disparate ages and people might be vaxing depending on many factors, including their family and neighborhood experience or their connection to institutions such as church, school or community centers.
Click the link and then âCovid 19 casesâ to see all the data, including those who have received their first dose (ie recent vaccinations):
https://mn.gov/covid19/data/data-by-race-ethnicity/index.jsp
Even if one admits they lied, they are still caught. Usually one admits because they realize they have to.
1 Like
I definitely find it amusing when somebody canât distinguish between lie and being wrong. I am wrong MANY times every week. That doesnât mean that I lie.
1 Like
so almost 70% of African Americans in NYC are not vaccinated. That is actually a fact.
My earlier post was not to have been interpreted as compliance is optional. As the same posters are just going around in circles on the same talking points, the thread is in slow mode until the morning to help those users post strategically and to allow other users to chime in to steer the conversation forward.
4 Likes
I sent this to medical lad telling him he could have saved a lot of money and time. He replied:
"Ah yes, the Facebook Accredited Kid/adult E-Medical Doctor (FAKE.D.). They are the future.
Sincerely,
A lowly M.D."
6 Likes
Itâs beyond stupidity to blame Dr. Fauci for the problem we face today. If it werenât for Dr. Fauci, weâd be in far worse shape. As a science, epidemiology is primitive and virology isnât much better. Thereâs nothing certain about a pandemic. The best Dr. Fauci can do is to interpret the sparse data and offer his expertise. Heâs done it better than anyone. CDC, on the other hand, has performed poorly throughout this pandemic, IMO.
As Iâve stated in another thread, the problem we have with vaccination is most highly correlated with the level of education. Highly educated Republicans are mostly vaccinated. Highly educated members of the minorities are mostly vaccinated. On the other hand, we have more people who believe in conspiracies in this country than in any other developed country. Guess what? Many of these people arenât vaccinated and US has the lowest vaccination rate among all developed countries where access to the vaccines isnât an issue.
5 Likes
The effectiveness against Delta is still not clear.
The problem is that, to measure effectiveness, you need to see the spread in a mostly unvaccinated population. The population which was exposed in Israel was > 80% vaccinated.
The reason is that having 80% vaccinated provides extra protection to the unvaccinated, that they do not have in, say, Louisiana, and that they did not have in the populations in the UK that was being infected.
So, in an unvaccinated population, a vaccinated person will have less than 10% the chance of an vaccinated person at being infected.
What can be calculated a lot more accurately, no matter how many people are vaccinated, is the percent of people who tested positive who were hospitalized, and the percent of the hospitalized who died.
That is why they are able to say how much it protects against hospitalization and death.
A second issue is that almost all the elderly people in Israel who were infected were vaccinated back in Dec-Jan, so they have > 6 months since the second vaccination.
Bottom line, it is very difficult to estimate the effectiveness of a vaccine, when the great majority of the population is vaccinated.
Regarding scientists and messages, there is a huge problem in the USA, that a huge segment of the media and politicians who have been doing their best to push the idea that Everything Is Opinion. This has come from across the political spectrum, mind you.
That means, that, when scientists revise what they think is happening, people then criticize them for âflip-floppingâ. And when Fauci changes his message, based on changing information, people are criticizing him for âflip-floppingâ. When COVID deniers, keep on repeating the same fake stories that have been debunked a dozen times, they are respected for keeping the same message.
I mean, scientists used to think that electrons, protons, and neutrons were the fundamental particles of the universe. Now they know that they are not - is that âflip-floppingâ?
At the same time, people who reject science, whether itâs regarding COVID, âalternative healingâ, young universe, etc, follow people who are repeatedly proven wrong, because these people do not change their message.
Basically, large number of people in the USA, would rather follow a person who denies the facts that contradict their claims, than follow a person who revises their claims in the face of facts.
Why? Because the second person is âflip-floppingâ. Because a person who makes up âfactsâ match their claims is âresoluteâ and âstrongâ.
Bottom line (for this part of the discussion), changing the message to fit the facts is NOT âflip floppingâ. It is, in fact, a little thing called âintellectual honestyâ, something which too many people in this country do not respect at all.
7 Likes
I agree that Dr. Fauci should and did do those things and that was the best he could do. IMO, some of the credibility stuff began as a result of his March 2020 60-Minute interview. March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about Covid-19 - YouTube
Both sides genuinely believe the other lies. Last year the accusation came from one side of the political fence; this year from another. Each side believes they are correct. Fauci might be caught in the middle; however, he should be extra careful to point out that his prior statements were not only wrong but appear misleading. The best way to disarm an accusation is to acknowledge it before the accuser does.
1 Like
Mostly true, but Fauciâs flip-flop on masks was the first crack in his credibility and it wasnât based on changes in virus or vaccine data. He eventually admitted that he told the public masking wasnât necessary because they wanted to preserve PPE for doctors/frontline workers, not because it wasnât effective protection against spread of the virus.
Trust once broken is often difficult to repair.
Also, Fauci is a scientist, but heâs also a bureaucrat and a highly visible one: thatâs a delicate balancing act because once you step into the political arena that part of your persona can overshadow the other.
1 Like
This should be helpful!
"A federal judge on Sunday night sided with Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings in a fight with Florida over vaccine passports, granting the cruise lineâs request for a preliminary injunction that blocks a state law barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.
In a nearly 60-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Kathleen Williams stated that Florida âfails to provide a valid evidentiary, factual, or legal predicateâ for its prohibition on vaccine passports.
âAmid myriad, rapidly-changing requirements regarding quarantining and testing, there is one constant that facilitates cruise line customersâ access to advertised ports of call: documentary proof of vaccination will expedite passengersâ entry into virtually every single country and port where Plaintiffs intend to sail,â Williams wrote."
4 Likes
Wish they would just refer to them as immunization records since that is what we have had all long.
1 Like
It was based on changes in virus data. In the beginning of the pandemic there wasnât data that most of the infected people are asymptomatic and they can spread the virus without anybody noticing. Fauci ALWAYS said that masks are needed for the infected people and the people that are around them.
So he didnât lie and he didnât do it to preserve PPE for the doctors.
1 Like
I actually watched the 60-minutes piece when it was first aired at the time. I assume what you think was misleading was the statement on masks. At that time, we didnât know whether the viral particles were aerosolized and how long they could stay in the air (and we still donât to a large extent, BTW). We thought the primary mode of transmission of this virus, like other coronaviruses, was through surface contact. We were wrong. Dr. Fauci also got it wrong. No one is perfect, especially when thereâre so much uncertainties in the basic science itself. The second problem Dr. Fauci faced with respect to masks was the supply of these masks at the time. He wasnât a private citizen. What he says has consequences. With masks in short supply, there would be a run on masks if Dr. Fauci had recommended them. He rightly believed the healthcare workers needed them more.
In retrospect, we shouldnât have been so dismissive of Asians wearing masks and so confident of our own grasp on the sciences of the pandemic. We need to show more humility when dealing with nature.
2 Likes