I believe question 10 in the video is your original question. Somewhere around 10 I think.
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Infection enhancing antibodies may be a thing to look at as well. Your body produces antibodies to fight the infection, but also antibodies that increase the infection. Only 50 patients, so small study, but may mean you donāt want to have a natural infection pre-vaccination. Something to continue to follow. How will it affect severity of disease in the reinfected? Antibodies that enhance the SARS-CoV-2 infection (Arase Lab, in Cell) | Achievement | Research Institute for Microbial Diseases, Osaka University
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Theyāre doing a great job of keeping people from getting seriously ill or dying, which certainly makes them worthwhile.
For example, Vermont recently reported that 0.1% of its vaccinated population (630 out of 431,519) has gotten covid, accounting for approximately 2% of covid cases in the state since January. 8 of the 630 died, approximately 5% of the total number of covid deaths in Vermont this year.
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Agreed. And thatās why I feel protected. But I also believe in the science of our immune system which some here want to discount. āMy spouse feels very protectedā because of the natural immunity of having had Covid. Feels even more protected having had one dose of the vaccine. Iāve had two doses of Pfizer so I feel good. Not looking to go out and get Covid but if I had had it I would feel pretty darn good about the science of our bodies and our immune systems.
Something to consider:
I would think the number of inconsiderate liars is small, but I also didnāt think so many would be swayed by disinformation.
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That FL couple definitely arenāt the brightest bulbs in the pack considering they thought they needed cards for a 4 and 5 year oldā¦ They hardly pass as 12+.
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In which case itās not very relevant to use travel to HI as an example of why we should have a vax mandate for flights.
The reason there should be a vax mandate for flights is that thereās evidence that Covid spreads on the flight. Iām not aware of that evidence so if you could link to something that would be helpful. Otherwise, I think your argument is more about restricting unvaccinated people from moving around too much using public means of transport. That means potentially introducing a vaccine mandate for all federally-regulated modes of transportation, including bus, train, subway, trolley, etc. My oldest caught Covid in March 2020 from riding the bus to her job, as did many others in the Chicago area in those early days. Unlike airplanes, thereās not always an available seat for a passenger on the bus or train, and breathing into one anotherās face is pretty common! So a vax mandate there would be prudent from a public health standpoint. Of course, politically Iām not sure this is feasible since it specifically targets low SES and other vulnerable populations and threatens them with not getting to their job unless they vaccinate. That doesnāt have good optics. Those sorts of complications might explain why there has been no push for federal mandates of this sort. Even on flights, such a mandate would favor those of higher means and more leisure time, less overall vaccine hesitancy, and so forth.
It was mentioned upthread that airlines wonāt collect their own data on Covid spread. Iām really not sure that would be necessary since a super-spreader event would be traced by the CDC (in order to offer more helpful and focused recommendations) and of course the airline in question would comply. If flights are risky for Covid over and above measures currently taken, then that information will be backed by evidence and presented. To date I havenāt heard such.
It was also mentioned that nearly 4,000 flight attendants have caught Covid. This is true.
However, what is not known is how many were infected in their work environment. Per BLS, there were 192,900 FAās in 2019 (fewer in 2020: 116,260 due probably to furloughs, early retirements, etc). So we are seeing approximately 3% of flight attendants get infected with Covid, which is a significantly better percentage than the general population (most of whom donāt have to deal with John Q Public all day). That FAās are experiencing a mental health crises - that I can readily believe, given passenger disruption over masks, economic uncertainty from furlough, fears of getting infected from Covid, and other fall outs from the pandemic. But if there is evidence to show that flying in general has been so risky that it requires a vaccine in order to do so . . . havenāt seen the data to support that.
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To stop unvaccinated from flying and spreading the virus all over the places is a worthwhile objective for a mandate, even if virus didnāt spread in flight (which it does according to the few studies that were carried out, including the one by New Zealand I mentioned upthread). Buses and other types of ground transportation either have limited range or limited frequency that they play a relatively minor role in spreading the viruses far and wide.
Anyone thinking buses are safe during Covid ought to google ābus drivers who have died from Covid.ā Many of the articles go back to 2020 and early 2021, but a couple individual ones are more recent, including school bus drivers. I think they stopped counting how many there have been overall.
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No crowded place is safe. However, buses are unlikely to play a significant role in spreading the viruses from FL to states in Northeast, for example. Or from US mainland to Hawaii. Flights do.
The Prez likely has legal authority to block all international arrivals unless they are fully vaccinated & perhaps even tested prior to boarding, but unless the CDC could demonstrate that airplanes are spreader events, the Prez has no legal authority to issue such a restriction for US domestic travel. (SCOTUS would toss it <60 days.) OTOH, Congress might be able to pass such a law.
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US hasnāt done it, but Canada will starting this fall (for both domestic and international flights). Once the vaccines become widely available worldwide, many other countries are likely to follow.
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Have you ever ridden Greyhound or Amtrak? Plenty of everyday people use them for long distance travel. Islands canāt be reached by bus, of course, but theyāre the exception. Itās the middle class to wealthy who can afford to drive, fly, or get rooms on Amtrak. Oodles of people go coach via bus/train. Itās part of life.
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The number of people who ride Greyhound or Amtrak traveling from one part of the country to another is miniscule in comparison with the number of people who travel by air every day.
The US could do it too, once Congress passes the appropriate law. (not likely, however)
Seems like it goes like this:
- If you have not previously had COVID-19, you have no natural immunity.
- If you then get vaccinated, you will likely gain some immunity against COVID-19.
- If you have previously had COVID-19, you probably have some natural immunity.
- If you then get vaccinated, you will likely improve your immunity even more against COVID-19.
- While infection + vaccination appears to give the strongest immunity, it is less dangerous to get vaccination first rather than infection first.
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The apparent LinkedIn page of the father in this case is somewhat interesting in this context.
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If we think (I presume we all do) that itās a good idea to keep travelers who are more likely to carry the virus from entering the country, why isnāt it a good idea to keep domestic travelers who are more likely to carry the virus from traveling from one part of the country to another?
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Interesting indeed.
Most good ideas require new legislation or some sort to scientific proof that air travelers are carriers.