That is surprising, but I guess his flock is worth more to him alive and well than sick and dying.
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Really glad to see that - thanks for posting! It would be so nice if politics and Covid quit being attached, so any break in the line is nice.
From the article thereâs both good:
"The Rev. Robert Jeffress, a pastor at the 12,000-member First Baptist Church in Dallas, told the news agency that he and his staff are neither âofferingâ exemption letters nor âencouragingâ members of their congregation to seek out religious exemptions from coronavirus vaccine mandates.
âChristians who are troubled by the use of a fetal cell line for the testing of the vaccines would also have to abstain from the use of Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Ibuprofen, and other products that used the same cell line if they are sincere in their objection,â said Jeffress in an email."
" The AP reported that leaders of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America said Thursday that, aside from medical reasons, âthere is no exemption in the Orthodox Church for Her faithful from any vaccination for religious reasons.â
âSimilarly, the news agency reported that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York have also said that they are not in support of exemption letters, according to the AP.â
And the 
that make you realize some see it as a way to make money:
" One pastor in Tulsa has even said that he will sign a religious exemption letter if people donate to his church, The Washington Post reported."
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Re payment for testsâŠthis was in a Washington Post article I just read.
â Costs of vaccines and testing continue to be waived, as required by the federal government.â
The article also discussed how copays and deductibles had been waived for Covid patientsâŠand that many insurers are not continuing that. Therefore, those with positive Covid diagnoses who require hospitalization and treatments could very well face some significant charges.
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I looked at the info with respect to Guillane Barre (my mother had it 20 some years ago and has avoided flu shots). The data (small) was that that there was a potentially slightly higher chance of getting GB but that it would likely be much milder. Since the alternative was very serious illness and possibly death, the choice to take the Covid vaccine was a no-brainer. She had her two doses quite early and is doing fine.
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deleted as it should go with another post.
The rights argument borders on or goes well into the hypocritical. Schools in most states require kids to have a variety of vaccines. It is illegal to drive with high levels of alcohol in your body. Heroin use is illegal. So, one does not have an unfettered right to control what does (and doesnât) go in oneâs body. And, in this upside down political world, the most vociferous of defenders of the âMy body, my choiceâ argument on vaccines are the most vociferous opponents of that same mantra when it applies to abortion (and vice versa). So, it is not clear how well-respected that right is or how well-reasoned that argument is. It is, however, strongly asserted.
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Do you also believe in personal responsibility? And the greater good? (BTW, I donât have the personal freedom to dive 100 MPH down a residential streetâŠ)
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This is a super-interesting topic.
I used to have students who do health and sci comms go and talk with anti-vax moms â not to judge or lecture or preach, but to try to understand â and theyâd come away surprised by how nice the moms were and how warmly they were received, and from there weâd have rather intense conversations about what the moms were doing and why, until they began to see that this isnât a simple problem at all and that the moms were not without reason in what they were doing, and that the communication problem is genuinely difficult.
The Covid anti-vaxxers are a very different crew, and when they showed up on LinkedIn I was very much surprised, but did engage. Primarily they were men, BS-level engineers and tech people, often with military backgrounds and very fighty. And they werenât without reason, either. But youâd get to something that touched on identity, autonomy, and a kind of club membership for them, and that was where they snapped â as opposed to the momsâ fear for their children. The moms would also say "yes, I know itâs not reasonable, I know what the evidence says, but I canât help being afraid that/I donât know that science has all the answers â " whereas the Covid-denial guys would say no such thing. They would however say that institutional science might not have all the answers.
Oh: a brilliant thing about having those debates/conversations on LinkedIn: you could actually see peopleâs backgrounds. Really really interesting.
Thereâs a significant difference between living like a mentally ill recluse and living like someone in a pandemic whoâs aware of how an airborne virus spreads and what it can do in the human body.
While following the advice of your governor and health experts can be a good thing, itâs not a good thing in states where the governor has muzzled or fired health experts who insist on being responsible public servants and offering best available public health advice.
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In my state, one may be given personal exemption from vaccines K-post secondary school, so may attend school without vaccinating. What goes on in other states may differ; however, you may not be correct that one would have to vaccinate, period. One may have to vaccinate in order to attend institutional school or school/community ed/some camps, etc. The exact legal requirement will probably vary by state. Vaccination against childhood diseases is a pretty standard thing. Children donât really choose what goes in their bodies LOL.
The hypocrisy here would of course go both ways. Both sides say âmy body my choiceâ about one ârightâ but not the other. Both preach respect for life or others and want the other side to be forced to go along with it. Both sides of the debate may need to recognize that âmy body my choiceâ is - strictly speaking - selfish, and that there may be a higher path that includes working for the good of others. This isnât restricted to the abortion or Covid debate, by the way - it applies to any act of charity!
We havenât introduced a wide-scale vaccination program with mandates etc. for many decades now so should not be surprised at pushback (for legitimate or other reasons). The loud, politically-motivated statements against the vaccine now are just a repeat of what happened in 2020 only on the other side of the political spectrum. People donât always think with their heads.
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As far as Iâm aware, pregnancy is not communicable, nor is one personâs pregnancy capable of maiming and killing many others. Youâre also capable of making the argument yourself, so itâs worth skipping the fencing and going straight to the endpoint.
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If she got two doses in the US, wouldnât that mean that she got the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, while only the J&J vaccine was noticed to be associated with a slightly higher rate of GBS?
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Looks like the new fed guidelines for contractors will be Nov 22 deadline, must be vaxxed by then. Expect some layoffs and fed contracts to stop due to labor shortages then. Not sure we can even hire enough replacements who are vaxxed.
Well, the endpoint would be that the pro-life side considers âmy body my choiceâ to result in the death of a human being and would cite that at least the same number of induced abortions as Covid deaths are performed every year. This isnât the forum for debate so thatâs not the intent here - just explaining the thinking. One may agree or disagree.
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And that is your endpoint?
Letâs not go down that rabbit hole.
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This was very early days and what I read at the time didnât distinguish between Pfizer, Moderna or J&J. There should be considerably more data. But, even if it were J&J, the choice to get vaccinated would have been a no-brainer. I think she got Moderna.
Agree @JBStillFlying that children donât get to choose, but a lot of the folks who are having tantrums now are parents talking about their right to control their kidsâ bodies. More importantly, the fact that some states allow for religious exemptions to vaccinations does not take you off the hook for responding to the broader argument that the state does indeed limit what you can and canât put in your body (alcohol, heroin, etc.). That is my point. Whatever the asserted right is, it is not absolute.
Second, I agree that the hypocrisy goes both ways (thatâs why I included the vice versa). You said, âThat is a freedom that is quite respected in this country, as we all know.â It seems to me like neither the right nor the left respect that freedom when it applies to others doing something they donât like. Hence, it is hard to agree with your statement that this as a well-respected freedom.
While I donât see complete symmetry between the quality of each sidesâ arguments, if neither respects the othersâ freedom, then it is not a respected freedom, just a rallying cry.
Finally, it seems that you are making my point. The vast preponderance of people arguing against the vaccine are doing so for political/tribal reasons, not religious reasons or because of a fundamental concern from freedom. There is no doubt an extremely small number of people for whom a sincere religious conviction that actually is violated by vaccination or a medical condition that prevents vaccination, but my sense is that the folks who legitimately qualify under those two exemptions are a tiny fraction of those who object to mandates or even of those who will seek exemptions.
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While following the advice of your governor and health experts can be a good thing, itâs not a good thing in states where the governor has muzzled or fired health experts who insist on being responsible public servants and offering best available public health advice.
Even in states where the governor has not done these things, governors do not always do the right things. Our governor, suppressed some data early in the pandemic, made some decisions based on what was best for the economy and donât even get me started on some of his non-Covid stuff. (And I voted for him, more than once.)
Unfortunately one of the things the pandemic has taught me is that at least currently all our institutions are tainted by politics.
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Iâm not aware of any laws restricting alcohol intake unless under 21 or operating a vehicle, piece of equipment, etc. Not up on my heroin laws - the drug obviously is illegal but donât the feds usually bust the dealers and not the users? Perhaps you can educate here. Not sure one needs to argue about âabsolutesâ - we generally respect someoneâs right to decline medical treatment in this country. On the other hand, the public good must be considered due to the highly infectious nature of the virus, and employers have generally been able to mandate the flu vax (I believe there must be accommodations for religious and medical but not aware of the details there).
I tend to agree with most of this, but when it comes to autonomy over what is put in oneâs body, the country has become increasingly libertarian, donât you think? The recent trend to decriminalize marijuana or legalizing assisted suicide would just the latest example. So yes, I believe that the populace is increasingly recognizing this autonomy as a âright.â Certainly the arguments âproâ would claim that.
On another (but related) thread, I estimated that when it came to vaccine hesitancy, the percentage of those who are white evangelicals is approximately equal to the number of POCâs.
Most likely both groups have distinct reasons for their hesitancy one from another, but perhaps some overlapping concerns. My guess is that, similar to 2020, vaccine hesitancy has more to do with distrust of the people in charge than anything else. Also, our vaccines usually go through several years (not several months) of real-time observation before reaching the scale of the Covid-vaccinated today. That does seem a bit ârushedâ to some people I know, but it also underscores the overwhelming demand for the vaccine in the first place. We have to keep this in mind. Many here are frustrated with the minority of the country that doesnât see things their way, instead of marveling at the number of US citizens vaccinated right now.
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