I will repost and revise my replay to @Bromfield2. It was hidden then deleted before I could revise it.
I also have a brother in law who has very crazy beliefs. I have told my wife that I feel no obligation to speak to him any longer. She can continue to field his crazy phone calls, but I’m done. I can no longer sit by and listen to his rantings. He isn’t uneducated—he has advanced degrees in physics. But his views have gone off the deep end.
I get a wait and see approach…in most cases. We had the luxury of time for my kids with the HPV vaccine.
I don’t feel we have that same luxury with COVID.
And not to be morbid, but 80 year olds don’t have a lot of long term left - I would take the potential of a rare long term effect over the very real short term effect of getting COVID.
There was a woman who got the vaccine in Dec and had her baby in Feb. The baby had antibodies.
My relatives who are nursing their babies got their shots. Hopefully they will give antibodies for their babies.
The other thing is, if you have 80 year old relatives, would you rather both them and you be vaccinated so that you can spend time together without worrying so much that you are unintentionally bringing a virus that could kill them?
I’m fortunate enough that my medical school boy enjoys taking the time to write out very nice, thoughtful, responses to people who do this. I let him take care of it for me and give him verbal thanks afterward.
Otherwise, I just accept people for who they are. I have some weird relatives (sigh), but that’s who they are. I prefer having contact to ditching them, so I tend to ignore a lot and try to stick with talking about things I know we have in common (enough). Life is short. No need to dwell on things that tear us apart IMO. I can ignore many things.
My cousin’s father and my father were brothers. My Dad immigrated to the US and his Dad stayed in their country of birth. I think my cousin’s views on COVID stem (in part) from the fact that he’s from a country where many people believe in conspiracy theories and mistrust the groups in power. I have told him that I don’t agree with his views and that the scientific evidence doesn’t support his position either. I don’t think I’m going to change his opinion. The good news is that he hasn’t sent me any crazy messages in the last few weeks. My hope is we’ll agree to disagree.
1000%. I wish everyone would do this. We’d have less strife. Growing up, I don’t remember anyone getting angry when they didn’t agree. The worst thing that would happen is someone would roll their eyes and walk away.
I think social media has made people more argumentative (and they think they are “instant experts”). Very few people can just accept being friends with someone who doesn’t share their views. I ended up closing social media accounts due to the bitterness of so many people. If someone is talking tin hat theories or crazy wild stuff I don’t agree with, I might laugh.
In terms of vaccines, I think there’s lots of information out there some good and some bad. People need to weigh the risk v. reward. Some make one choice, some make another. They need to weigh what they think and why they think that and how it may impact them and others. ( BTW< not looking to engage in straw man arguments about the good of society, I get it. ) You don’t need to convince me. But you are never going to have 100% agreement in society.
Covid has certainly seemed to bring out where people fall on the Authoritarian - Libertarian axis of the political/ideology compass.
I remember growing up the same. I keep wondering is it that society is becoming more authoritarian/argumentative or does social media just give a bigger voice to that ideology and those who have more of a “live and let live” attitude are less vocal. The authoritarian types push their views on social media and the libertarians tend more to do what you did - roll their eyes, walk away and close their accounts or at least just scroll past posts while rolling their eyes, but without arguing back.
External effects (i.e. effects on others*) of personal actions make that simple characterization much more messy. Libertarian philosophy is based on personal choice with personal responsibility. But it gets messy when actions have large external effects, potentially larger than personal effects (e.g. wearing a mask typically protects others more than it protects you from COVID-19).
In practice, many people are libertarian regarding their own actions, but authoritarian regarding others’ actions. I.e. no consistent philosophical grounding here, just their own personal whims.
*Typical examples would be things like pollution; there is a reason why, for example, dog walkers are often required to clean up after their dogs. Bigger examples would be acts like murder and theft that were made illegal since ancient times, since they obviously have undesirable external effects on others.
Yes social media gives amplification to all. Many are quiet and go into silos where folks think as they do and avoid the rest. Or they align with peers who think as they do. Some take the extra step to shut down other opinions ( it’s not science, it’s dangerous etc).
As related to vaccines, I think there are many people who don’t see an issue in thinking they are live and let live. Yet they are ok with demonizing those who don’t agree. So the arguments keep changing. Some always put themselves on the moral side which is dangerous. In the past, I think more people were truly able to see that there are different viewpoints. I see the ability to let others keep their viewpoints without attacking them is the highest level of understanding.
I have spoken to many friends and family. Most have different opinions about the vaccine, which is best, when to take it, why it’s safe etc.
How can that be? I didn’t think any of the three companies with EUA vaccine approval have yet filed their BLAs (request for full approval) with the FDA.
I’m far more live and let live with the vaccine. Having it helps me and my family. If you don’t mind the risk for yours, that’s your choice. To me it equates with eating a healthy diet (or not).
I’m also live and let live with businesses that want to require the vaccine (cruise ships, events, stores, restaurants, whoever), because it’s their business if an outbreak occurs.
I’m not at all live and let live when it comes to masks now that the science on them is known. No one has a right to breath Covid germs openly on me or my family when we try to shop for groceries.
I’m also not at all live and let live with drinking/texting/drug use and driving - same reason. At that point what one is doing can really affect my life.
I’m not sure what category that puts me in for those who use labels, but I also don’t care.
And if/when neighbors/friends/relatives disagree we’re still neighbors/friends/relatives. I’ll let my lad respond to any of their “arguments” if they post them online, but in general we’ll discuss other things. I’ll definitely make it a point to stay away if it’s a masking issue (for at least a few more weeks until we’re all fully vaccinated and more willing to take our chances with those who feel differently).
For restaurants, stores, and churches that didn’t care a hoot about my health when mask mandates or shut downs were supposed to be in effect, I don’t care a hoot if they stay in business now. I’ve selected to support others that did openly care. I see no need to return to those who didn’t care. I won’t stop others from going though. Their choice.
Many folks around here who say that they have a right to do what they want with their own lives when it comes to Covid-related things are in support of limiting the rights of others to do what they want with their lives when it comes to non Covid-related things. I find it perplexing.
My 20 something kids often point that out. It’s definitely weird.
Word on the streets is that Pfizer will submit for full approval sometime in April, but until that happens…it’s rumor only.
Stay tuned!
Right…Pfizer said that in Dec/Jan that April was their submission target date, and made this update the other day stating they are on that timeline:
Full FDA approval will likely take longer than the EUA approval, which happened in 3 weeks or so. Moderna and JNJ have been silent re: BLA filing plans, AFAIK
this is what is holding up my S20. He will not get vaccinated until full approval. Period , the end. I cannot convince him. But the second they do, I will make sure he has his appointment.
I don’t agree that that is actually true. Because no two people are going to agree on every single thing. And yet many people do have friends-true friends- and don’t share the same views.
JMO.
I would have even fewer friends than I do if everyone agreed with me. In fact most have very different ideas.
Fortunately none of the people are fans of conspiracy theories, except my crazy cousin. And all I have to do is put her on mute. But Facebook put her in timeout, for which I’m grateful. Back to posting pictures of the grandkids!