Antibodies are only one part of the body’s defense system, so checking antibody levels is just a 1st (and easy) cut. T/B cells also play a large role in defense so one could have a lowering of antibody levels but still have a strong T/B cell response (via natural immunity) to another exposure.
Unfortunately, CDC/NIH has chosen not to even track such cases much less study them.
I definitely believe in the stats, but how many those unvaccinated people in ICU already had a previous Covid infection? I believe in the vaccines and believe in the science, but I have seen enough conflicting data in regards to those with natural immunity. It would be nice to compare natural immunity to the 15 million people with the J&J vaccine, for example. Why haven’t we seen a percentage of the protection from Natural immunity? Personally, I choose protecting my family and community, but anyone who has already had a natural infection and has decided to not get the vaccine (while also go through all of the extra preventative measures that the NBA will have for unvaccinated players) would not concern me at all, because I do believe that the vaccine protects my family and we continue to take our own precautions.
Not sure this will be helpful since the “other” side constantly rants about how the “truth” is suppressed (that’s what I hear anyway), but I consider it a win and kudos to YouTube for taking a stand!
"YouTube said on Wednesday that it was banning several prominent anti-vaccine activists from its platform, including the accounts of Joseph Mercola and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., as part of an effort to remove all content that falsely claims that approved vaccines are dangerous.
In a blog post, YouTube said that it would remove videos claiming that vaccines do not reduce transmission or contraction of disease, and content that includes misinformation on the contents of the vaccines. Claims that approved vaccines cause autism, cancer or infertility, or that the vaccines contain trackers will also be removed."
Firstly, I’m thankful that people have recovered from Covid and have natural immunity. I wouldn’t want to risk getting covid since the is a strong chance of hospitalization, death, long Covid, spread to others. But if the unfortunate person did end up surviving the bout with covid, they still have NO protection from another variant, and there are several other circulating variants. Eventually, some variants will be more severe than what we see today (i.e. Delta compared to Alpha, one day we will be talking xxx compared to Delta). Vaccine has cross-reactivity to cover multiple variants. But I agree with you that we should not entirely discount the importance of natural immunity. But I also think the benefits of getting the vaccine after infection outweigh the risks.
And you know this how?
And you are so positive the vaccine protects from all variants?
But this is not what that Israeli study, linked to above, shows. Are the findings in that study suspect, in your eyes?
I do agree we have incomplete and/or conflicting information/data regarding natural immunity, vaccinated immunity, and how long they both last. This is why the vaccine mandates in many government and private entities aren’t giving an exception to those who have previously had a covid infection (at least I haven’t heard of that as an exception anywhere).
Published in Nature back in January 2021. This was before Delta took over.
“The data suggest that repeat infections are rare — they occurred in fewer than 1% of about 6,600 participants who had already been ill with COVID-19. But the researchers also found that people who become reinfected can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat, even when they do not show symptoms.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6
Yes, you and your family are doing the right thing, But no concern at all? My family does the same, but we might get sick anyway, and we might give it to other people in the process. What about all the people who don’t take precautions? Why wouldn’t people get vaccinated if it provides better protection, even if they have already had covid? The more protection people have, the better it is for the community. Wouldn’t it be best for Jonathan Isaac to get a vaccine to better protect himself, his family and the community?
This virus spreads easily. It mutates. It kills and causes lasting illness. I don’t understand why everyone isn’t outraged that people are deliberately choosing NOT to protect others. I’m beyond frustrated that people say it should be a personal choice and in the same breath, fail to see that not only are they then choosing to risk spreading it to others, but also depriving people of their choice not to get sick and maybe die.
It’s been repeated ad nauseum, but people would be freaking out if polio or tuberculosis made a resurgence. They’d rush to vaccinate themselves and/or their kids as soon as possible. 693,000 now dead of covid in the US in less than two years. More are going to die or have lasting complications. I don’t get it.
This isn’t about absolutes or knowing everything. It’s about what scientists know right now about COVID and their best guesses. Based on millions and millions of doses given, the risk from vaccines is immensely low and the benefit right now is immensely high, even with Delta. Why take chances based on the relatively less known science of reinfection?
At this point, given enough misinformation, I’m not convinced that everyone would be freaking out if polio or TB made a resurgence.
Exactly. Fauci said as much regarding polio…basically we would have never been able to come close to eradicating polio if it had surfaced today because of the concerted misinformation campaigns we are seeing for covid and its vaccines.
You are correct, I should have not said NO, I should have said LESS
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abi9915
Most unfortunate when a public figure squanders his chance to be a leader in his community. He may be protected, for now, but he could look at the vax rates of young men under 30 and decide to be a role model for them in getting vaxxed. Last I checked the vax rates for teen/20 something Black men was about 27% in NYC. Some may have natural immunity now, but many do not.
Why would the existing vaccines (targeted against the ancestral variant) be any different from actual COVID-19 infection (with an older variant) in terms of immune response against a new variant? Yes, that may change if vaccines for newer variants become available, but they are not available now.
Note: I do not agree with Issac that vaccination is unnecessary or undesirable after previous infection (for other reasons), but I do not see why the above argument makes sense. The other reasons include the finding that vaccination of people with previous natural infection produces very strong immunity, so that the risk of a breakthrough (against the immunity from previous infection) infection is much lower.
From the above-reference paper: “vaccination-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of epitopes within the RBD than infection-elicited antibodies”. A real-time study would be the study out of Kentucky, shown above, that shows you’re 2.3 times more likely to get Covid again if you remain unvaxx, and that may be supportive of these findings.
There are billions of people on earth who have not been vaccinated. By the time that everyone on earth who wants the vaccine is vaccinated (which may take a few years), we will possibly be dealing with something else. I have already come to the conclusion of some scientists that Covid is here to stay as an endemic disease. If natural immunity does not slow down the spread of the disease (especially in 3rd World countries), we are in trouble regardless. I am not frustrated, despite believing in the vaccines because I have never bought into the selflessness of the American people. I believe that most Americans thought a common enemy (Covid) would bring us together.
But I grew up around people who did not have enough food to eat or health care and wondered how a country with all of this wealth and power could allow this to happen. It is because most Americans mainly take care of themselves and their own families. People donate to charities to make themselves feel better (less guilty) or for tax breaks more than to help others from my own worldview. Most only look at Covid from their own personal perspective (just like most Americans don’t really care about Covid outside of our borders because it doesn’t affect them directly).
Acknowledging that others too are selfish doesn’t excuse Jonathan Issac’s selfishness. He was in a position to make a difference to millions of young men; he chose not to do so. That is his right, of course, but still disappointing. What a failure of leadership.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abi9915 says that “There are several limitations to our study. The vaccinated individuals in our study were relatively young (18 to 55 years) and healthy, whereas the convalescent individuals were older (23 to 76 years; median, 56) with a range of comorbidities(13).” Also, the study was specific to the Moderna vaccine, which has three times as much mRNA as the more common Pfizer vaccine.
Yes, this is the actual reason for people who have had COVID-19 to get vaccination in addition, since that significantly increases their immunity beyond what they may have gotten from previous infection. Doing so protects both oneself and others. (If there is a shortage of vaccine, there may be an argument for the previously infected to wait until those who were not previously infected get vaccinated, but there is no shortage now in the US.)
In addition, many of those with “long COVID-19” show improvement after getting vaccinated.
Johnathan Isaac stated he had Covid in the past, but doesn’t say when that was. Depending on when that was, he may have no antibodies now. I have a sister that kept claiming the same thing, but her Covid was last November. She finally did get the vaccine a couple of months ago. It was either that or not visit family.
To be honest, I don’t think too many people know who Jonathan Issac is or his views. Over 90% of NBA players are vaccinated, so he is an outlier in a sport that is vaccinated at a much higher rate than our overall population.