Note that the Revolutionary War smallpox immunization campaign in 1777 was done by variolation – intentionally infecting soldiers and recruits with what was believed to be a weaker variant of the actual smallpox. That was presumably the reason for the 2-3% death rate mentioned, although this was much lower than the death rate of more severe forms of smallpox, which could be up to 35%.
Vaccination against smallpox using the much less dangerous cowpox was discovered later in 1796, although there were hints of it before (as in those whose job was milking cows often got cowpox but avoided getting smallpox when outbreaks of smallpox occurred).
I believe there is at least 10 percent of the population that will continue go unvaccinated, no matter the mandate. Would that be enough to end the pandemic if everyone else is vaccinated? I have 5 young black family members that I am still talking to about getting vaccinated and I can not think of a mandate that would work on 2 of them because they make their money “by hustling”.
The one thing I am sure about is that they would laugh at the tough mandate talk on CC, despite seeing the effects of Covid in our community. There is still a disconnect as one family member believes that Covid is just killing “Old unvaccinated folks” and “we don’t hang around anyone like that”. Between a lack of trust and a lack of care or worry for others, getting those family members vaccinated may be impossible. If the government had tied some stimulus to getting a vaccine, that incentive might have worked on some of the hesitant that I know.
The lawyers argue that “children…are dramatically less susceptible to illness from COVID." The lawyers fail to acknowledge that the children presumably have families that might include parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles or other adults who can be considerably more ill due to covid. The lawyers fail to acknowledge that the children can spread it to other children who also have families. Such shortsightedness.
I hope the mandate stays in place.
@ChangeTheGame there were incentives in quite a few places. Curious if your young relatives were in areas where they could take advantage of the incentives. I haven’t heard anything about them lately, but I know there were offers of cash and lotteries at some point around the country.
Approximately 40,000 people under the age of 50 have died from Covid. With a comorbidity rate north of 90% that suggest about 4,000 people who had no preexisting illness under the age of 50 have succumbed to Covid.
By comparison and for context 70,000 people overdosed on opioids last year of which the vast majority were under the age of 50.
Putting aside the societal imperative to get vaccinated your family members perceptions should not be surprising based on what is likely their personal experience. For our younger generation regrettably drug overdoses, gun violence and suicide is a much more “tangible” and visible risk and consideration relative to Covid.
There were some small incentives in my hometown, but nothing that “moved the needle”. But if the federal government had tied the $1,400 per person stimulus to getting vaccinated, that may have changed the hesitancy numbers in a significant way.
I wonder how many of us have family members who aren’t going to get vaxxed.
I don’t have any in my immediate family, but I have 4 aunts/uncles and a BIL/SIL who absolutely won’t. Unlike yours, none of these are young and less risk. The aunts/uncles are all over 60 and have several comorbidities including extreme weight for one. BIL/SIL are in their 50s. They’re all white, but hit the other typical categories of those who feel it’s all overblown and a hoax. All of the sad stories out there actually had other causes and are just getting blamed on Covid.
The only way my aunts/uncles will survive if they get it is pure luck of having natural immunity or the meds they have working. None have to get it for work - most are retired. BIL is supposed to have to get it for work, but will likely weasel around somehow. Not sure if SIL is required.
ETA - forgot to add my nephew. He’s in his young 30s and simply feels there’s no need. He hates needles. He drives truck, so I’m doubtful there’s a mandate.
I think you have nailed the thoughts of some of my young hesitant family members. They are much more likely to deal with deadly consequences from concerns other than Covid-19. 4 of my 5 family members are under 25, 3 have had previously confirmed cases of Covid with 2 being asymptomatic and the 3rd only losing their sense of smell and a runny nose, and none have any co-morbidities, but the fact that they don’t seem to mind putting others at risk is worrisome. But one family member in particular commented to me that people don’t care about his struggles, so why should he care about protecting strangers from Covid? That made me mad because I know that he was raised better, but I also know where his anger comes from so I continue to check in and hopefully say something that makes a difference.
While I would encourage him to get vaccinated he is statistically much more likely to get injured or killed in his profession as a trucker.
“Around 500,000 trucking accidents occur each year in the United States, with about 5,000 per year resulting in death.”
With fewer then 14,000 deaths in his age bracket from Covid versus the entire population trucking is a far greater hazard. Particularly given he is in his early 30s and hopefully has no other pre existing illnesses.
Again I think he should get vaccinated given it is effective at reducing severity of illness and helps society as a whole, but he hates needles and given his profession is comfortable with a degree of risk I and others are not.
The stimulus checks were given before the vaccines were universally available. The checks were sent when it only medical personnel or politicians were getting them and the rest of us were trying to find available appointments.
Does your family enforce the ‘no vaccine, no invitation’ rule? If ‘only old people are dying’, do you require these young people (who are wearing Kryptonite) stay away from the old people? (and sorry, @ChangeTheGame you have to be in the ‘old people’ group). My daughter was a reluctant vaxxer but my mother didn’t restrict her from coming around. My sister did and wouldn’t allow my daughter to enter her house or come to a party this summer. Daughter didn’t really care, but if my mother or brother had banned daughter, it would have mattered a lot.
Daughter finally caved when there were places she couldn’t go - to restaurants, to concerts, to Costa Rica, to Hawaii (she’s currently in Hawaii). Carrot didn’t work, but stick did.
From the New York Times: “United Airlines said it would terminate about 600 employees for refusing to comply with its vaccination requirement, putting the company at the forefront of the battle over vaccine mandates as the economy moves through a bumpy pandemic recovery.”
Pretty good compliance rate. I guess the stick worked in this case.
I heard from my mom that my sister and her teen children haven’t been vaccinated because my sister “read or heard” that anti-anxiety medications and Covid vaccinations are a bad mix. I have never heard this, and a quick online search didn’t turn up anything. Anyone else hearing this and, more important, finding good refutations of this claim?
My family has had some outdoor interaction with social distancing over the summer, but only vaccinated people were allowed indoors. I am definitely in the “old person group” despite not being that old (mid-40’s), but they wonder why the vaccinated are so “scared” if we believe in the vaccines. I have explained many different ways that we want them and our entire family to be safe, but that has not been enough so far.
Mandates can convince a lot of people to get vaccinated, but I see some gaps that I think a “ bigger carrot” would have worked. Travel restrictions, concerts, and restaurants wouldn’t cause any pain at all for my family in my hometown.
I just read an article about a college student in NC who had a similar belief. He thought young, healthy people with no preexisting conditions would only get a light case. His mom begged him to get the vaccine even though his college (UNCW) didn’t require it. He was reluctant because he was concerned about developing heart issues from the vaccine but agreed to get vaccinated when he got to school. He got Covid days after arriving on campus and was hospitalized for ~3 weeks. He died on Sunday. My doctor said for some it takes a serious illness or death in their inner circle to change people’s minds about the vaccine. I hope that’s not true because I have a couple of young family members with similar beliefs.
Stories like this make me super glad that my own kids had no problems getting vaxxed even without us parents prodding them. They’re all in their 20s.
It undoubtedly helped that they saw their oldest brother have long haul symptoms and middle son saw some of the horrors in the hospital. Even so, I was wondering if my “nature boy” and his wife would get one or not. We were so glad when they did - and as early as they could.
