Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

At least in science classes they’re going to have a tough time if they weren’t taught to cite reputable sources.

I guess it’s no different than any other gap in one’s education though. Figure it out or get lower grades.

Also, if the school explicitly caters to anti-vaccine parents, it seems unlikely that such parents will sue if any of them (students or parents) gets a nasty case of COVID-19.

Oh he’ll probably be fine. Martyrdom is a lucrative profession these days. And some school in an anti-vax state may be thrilled to have him. I feel bad for the team he let down and abandoned. So much for the mantra that no one person is bigger than the team.

This had nothing to do with his record as a football coach. It was the result of a state mandate and a exemption request review process where requests for exemptions are reviewed with the identity of the requestor unknown. His request was denied.

Besides, his team had won three in a row and was still in the running for the P12 North title. This was not a football decision.

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This could get interesting if anything more comes of it:

I’d place bets that history will not look fondly on those spewing misinformation regardless of which country they are in.

"A Brazilian congressional panel is set to recommend mass homicide charges against President Jair Bolsonaro, asserting that he intentionally let the coronavirus rip through the country and kill hundreds of thousands in a failed bid to achieve herd immunity and revive Latin America’s largest economy.

From the outset of the pandemic, Mr. Bolsonaro has gone out of his way to minimize the threat of the virus. As countries around the world locked down, and his own people began filling hospitals, he encouraged mass gatherings and discouraged masks. An avowed vaccine skeptic, he lashed out at any who dared criticize him as irresponsible.

Those actions, the report argued, amounted to mass homicide.

The report found that the president had pushed unproven drugs like hydroxychloroquine well after they had been shown to be ineffective for treating Covid-19 and that his administration caused a monthslong delay in the distribution of vaccines in Brazil by ignoring more than 100 emails from Pfizer. Instead, his government opted to overpay for an unapproved vaccine from India, the report said, a deal that was later canceled over suspicions of graft."

I’ve been waiting to see something like this. Michigan’s done an interesting job lately in holding leaders accountable; Flint residents sued the then-governor some time ago, and last summer the Michigan Supreme Court ruled that he could indeed be held liable.

It’s also going to be interesting to see how this plays out internationally. We’re accustomed to sanctions for human rights abuses, and for war crimes, but this is a bit new: it’s about grotesquely negligent leadership, and of course it has knock-on effects outside a country’s borders. I can’t recall any international law covering this, but I bet some’s being discussed now.

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All it takes is one bereft mom who really believed that the power of the religious or whatever teaching at the school was keeping her children safe, and believed what the school officials said about safety.

It’s amazing how much money some of these parents have, and there are colleges out there, particularly religious ones, that are happy to take that money and build friendly curriculum. Since they don’t seem to care when people die, maybe they also won’t care when the roads crumble and the bridges don’t stay up, so long as they get to go on using their special STEM.

Not that it’s new. I remember my grandfather trying me on this stuff that, holy cow, certainly takes the long way around. There was one in particular that tried to explain the walls of Jericho falling because of the incredibly powerful sound waves generated by the trumpets. Special physics for when you’re on the team that’s supposed to win, I guess.

The unfortunate thing is that you wind up with a whole set of “alternate science facts” that have nothing to do with how science works, and thousands and thousands of people living happily in that mental universe, deciding that real med schools won’t accept their kids because of religious persecution. And then you’ve got a scientific world that still hasn’t recovered from or taken in the non-paranoiac lessons of Sokal. And a very large and expensive scientific infrastructure that has no way of discussing these things except within a very few spots in the closed universe of academic social sciences. It’s not great.

This is a rather long video (about 45 min), but allows for better understanding of why there is vaccine reluctance to the Covid vaccines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0


ADMIN UPDATE: This content has been flagged many times as false and not providing accurate information. Please be mindful of external links as CC cannot verify content on other sites for accuracy.


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SF health board closed a local burger shop, In-and-Out burger, for not checking vax cards of customers. Company says it is not the vaccine police and its teen employees shouldn’t be put in that position. I am getting more sympathetic to that position as I wade through religious exemptions submitted to my company. I am uncomfortable asking highly personal questions about the basis for their religious views-today’s request included way too much info about an employee’s adherence to natural family planning. Ugh, why are we stuck in this position?

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This is what we already know. People freak out because they consume vats of misinformation without having the background or desire to identify it.

Journalists also tend not to have enough familiarity with how academic science works to understand that guys like Malone are everywhere in science, that they don’t succeed for good reason, and that they wildly overestimate the individual importance of their own work, in part because they don’t grasp what an enormously complex enterprise they’re part of, maybe in part because they aren’t in the end comfortable with being that tiny and expendable in any universe.

I stopped watching after the Malone intro because it smelled all wrong, and was. That would be…39 seconds in. I’ll leave it to others to catalogue the rest of the misinformation zoo that’s probably introduced next. But people who don’t know how science and scientific industries go and dig a good conspiracy eat up stuff like this – it’s how we also got Mercola and that dude who ran around forever saying HIV didn’t cause AIDS and it was all a hoax.

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Not exactly a “local burger shop.” Rather it is the SF branch of a large chain. And, while it was briefly shut down, it is open again for drive through, take out, and outside dining. Everything but indoor dining. And no probing personal questions were required. Show a card. That’s it.

Surely it is not overreach for SF to require restaurants to minimize life threatening health risks in their dining areas. If SF In n out isn’t okay with that it can sell its burgers outside or the through a window. Historically their locations didn’t even have indoor dining so my guess is this branch will be able to adapt.

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I have no problem with a vax requirement, but why is it up to the restaurant to enforce? And yes, in reviewing religious exemption requests I have to ask probing personal questions regarding employees’ beliefs and practices, including what medicines they also consume and their views on abortion, depending upon the basis for their objection. I support vax mandates, but employers are rightly furious at being put in the position of enforcement ( and we have very few guidelines to do so).

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But who else could enforce it? You couldn’t put a police officer in every establishment. I agree it’s not great, but there are no viable alternatives.

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Who should enforce a mask requirement? some business establishments (restaurants).are higher risk than others. The choice really is all restaurants shut down or they find a way to confirm vax status at all restaurants. If you run a restaurant, checking vax status is much less restrictive than being closed entirely. Checking vax status wouldn’t be any more onerous than checking id at a bar, but for the volatility of some unvaxed folks who want to pick a fight.

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Or, it is simply a long and craftily edited video of a bunch of antivaxxers.

Btw, folks, the sooner you flag that video on YouTube, the sooner it will be taken down.

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You are not allowed to smoke indoors at restaurants and bars in numerous parts of the country because it posses a health threat to those who are sharing the space by virtue of secondary smoke. No smoking rules have been enforced by individual businesses with the support of local codes, bans and laws.

Unvaccinated people pose a similar threat to the health of those in close proximity to them. No reason enforcement can’t be handled in a similar fashion to indoor smoking bans.

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Attempting to monitor for masks and vaccine status has went badly in several instances around the country. I can understand the company not wanting to expose it employees to this potential hazard. The vast majority of businesses around the country are not requiring vaccine checks to enter. Perhaps the localities that are requiring it should actually provide some support in enforcing it.

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Bars are typically more capable of checking and enforcing entry requirements, because they already hire bouncers to remove those who do not follow their rules.

Note that many bars in San Francisco started having vaccination requirements to enter before the city made the requirements, presumably because they were already capable of enforcing that rule.

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Most restaurants (not bars) that I’ve been to have enforced checking ID to buy alcohol. They can check vax cards.

The main difference is the lunatics out there protesting that their freedom to eat inside a restaurant is far more important than anyone’s health. Hopefully there are security cameras to catch them, then fine or imprison them depending upon how nasty they are. They are not the center of the universe at all, but esp during a pandemic. They are also infringing upon the rights of the employees to do their job.

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I watched the entire video after reading this comment. There was not a single anti vax comment although the panel questions boosters. What I got out of the video was an emphasis on early treatment. They are physicians who have treated thousands of Covid patients and at least two of them have had low death rate with early treatment. They all agree it’s a multifaceted problem, and that Covid continues to be an emergency, is serious and is filling up hospitals.

They want us to stop focusing on the idea that the vaccine is the only way out of the pandemic. They believe in studying for
Prophylaxis
Early treatment
Measures to stop spread
As well as the vaccine not instead of the vaccine.

What exactly is so offensive to you about this panel that you are advocating flagging the video to have it taken down?

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