Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

That’s a terrible chart as they combine religious & medical exemptions. And since no major religion has a religious objection to vaccines…

IMO, a better chart is below. Note ‘red’ Mississippi which was years ahead of ‘blue’ NY, in requiring vaccinations for kids.

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@FallGirl orry if that was unclear, I too am fully vaxxed and happy to mask up everywhere.

I have a friend in an extremely blue area in CA, one that as @twoinanddone says, would be known, locally for having a high proportion of locals against childhood vaccines, and, yet now the extreme in his city is actually double masking in outdoor settings (biking/hiking, well over 6’ from others), where there is not any risk (per CDC) like it’s a badge of honor.

Yes, my examples were extreme to the point of caricature, but there are a few outliers, on each side, who are about that extreme; and yes, it is heresay, as I was told it, not saw it myself. Heck, I’m not getting close enough to any strangers to see anything happening, nor hear their thoughts :wink:

But there is a definite social honor in each side to their group. In travels for work, I saw a place where there were no masks in sight & I was glad to have one.

Its not my chart. Talk with the CDC. But if no major religion has religious objection to vaccines, does it matter if that is combined with medical exemptions? X+0 is X.

absolutely, as anyone can claims a ‘religious’ exemption, and such an exemption makes it easy for anti-vaxers to do their thing. If states are really serious about vaccinating kids, they’ll remove the religious exemption from state law.

btw: yes, I saw the source was CDC. I was just suggesting that the chart is was poorly designed as it conflates two items, by design. And more importantly, It purposely hides the handful of states who are leading the childhood vax effort.

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Not that I expect you to be judgey, but my mom - who granted does lean toward the extreme hermit side of the pandemic response - has found some benefits to masking outdoors even by herself. Both she and I have horrible allergies and masking is helping her with that. And I’ve also kept mine on at times after the gym while running home in the winter for warmth, and now on occasion for allergy reasons.

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Are they wearing a sign that says “i expect a social honor because I take extra precaution “ - because unless you know them or heard them or they are wearing their sign you do not know their story and they are not asking for any judgment. All you can assume is that for some reason they take the virus in a serious manner and if wearing a double mask on a solitary bike ride makes them comfortable and not holed up in the house, I’d say they are making the best of a bad situation

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The difference is that one group are denying science, denying facts, and endangering the health and lives of millions, while the other are self-righteous and extremely annoying.

So no, they are not the same or even close to being the same.

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My son who lives with us would wear a mask outside here on the farm this year whenever it was cold. It had nothing to do with Covid. He called it his “face blanket.” :slight_smile:

And yeah, I don’t judge anyone choosing to wear a mask assuming they have some reason or another, but I definitely judge those who don’t when they should be wearing one.

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Hey all, I really really did not mean to convey that these are MY thoughts, I am saying these (extreme stereotyped examples) are thoughts I hear (read about) other’s state. Either it’s a person on one extreme talking about the other extreme, or it’s a very middle of the road person, masked & vacced, but actually talking about each extreme. These conversations I have heard or read.

The point of posting was, wow, it’s surprising to me, and others, how dramatically politicized this pandemic is. Yep, we can all speculate how it got this way, the particularly unusual politics of the moment in 2020, but mainly, my point was, if you’d asked any one in 2000 or 2010, what would the results of a pandemic look like, I don’t think anyone would have foreseen such a polarizing political take on the simplest of decisions.

Notice I am trying to avoid going political myself. I am trying to maintain a neutral attitude in what I am posting, but I mean, really? Really? Your hill to die on is not wearing a freaking mask? That seems so bizarre to me.

That said, C19 virus or not, I, like many others, have noticed,I’ve had no colds, no flus since March 2020, and I don’t miss everyone’s germs making me sick for weeks & weeks at a time, so I am happy, now that I have experienced it, to wear a mask always if this is the result. Though I guess I don’t know how well that works if no one else wears one :wink: I always wiped my cart before this, so that’s not the difference.

And, yes, the masks are great for allergies and warmth, but warmth is not the goal in CA this month, maybe allergies, but I trust the person who told this story as they do live in a very intensely political area that there is some level of truth to his story.

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Some of us have discovered that wearing a mask really cuts down on seasonal allergies, sorry if people think that’s annoying. My husband often wore a mask in the winter even when no one was close, when he realized it kept his nose warm.

Anyway good for Mississippi for being on the ball with childhood vaccines.

That’s why the politicization of this is so weird.

That said, here in NY it’s more a matter of economics as to who has gotten the vaccine. People who can’t take time off work easily, people in immigrant communities are the one’s lagging behind.

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Actually, NYS is doing well as they are in the top 10 for fully vaccinated population. My state, CA, continues in the bottom half, which makes little sense when the state has a huge budget surplus, so there is plenty of money for outreach.

NYS as a whole is doing well, but there are zip codes that are not doing well at all. Westchester County is one of the wealthiest counties in the country, but some zip codes within it have vaccination rates as low as 21%.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/2021/05/05/westchester-confronts-lagging-covid-vaccination-rates-key-zip-codes/4933395001/

It says that link is only available to subscribers…

My husband went to a store today that is owned by a long time friend. He and his wife are in stores with the public every day. They both are not getting the vaccine. He told my husband hopefully everybody who shops here will get it.

It is not too surprising when you consider that many political disagreements in general have to do with the regulation of externalities (in economics, an externality is something that happens to a third party as the result of economic activity; pollution is a typical example of a negative externality in economics courses). Even in ancient times, societies had rules against actions that create negative externalities (e.g. rules against murder, theft, and lying about one’s neighbor).

Since communicable diseases by definition create externalities, and COVID-19 is particularly adept at doing so with presymptomatic or asymptomatic spread while being just deadly enough to create concern but not deadly enough to make such concern universal, it is no surprise that political differences regarding how much regulation of externalities there should be get brought into the picture. That is also accentuated by the fact that one of the more visible mitigations (wearing masks) is an action that individuals take mostly to protect others versus themselves.

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U.S. COVID vaccine tracker: How many people have been vaccinated and boosted? : Shots - Health News : NPR indicates that California has a relatively high percentage of first dose received, but a lower-middle percentage fully vaccinated. One can speculate whether it is due to:

  1. People not getting their second dose of two dose vaccines, or
  2. Many people only recently being able to get their first dose of two dose vaccines (in many parts of the state, it was difficult to get an appointment nearby until late April or early May, but now it is easy to do so).

Sorry about the link. Local papers are the worst!

Here are the relevant bits. I can’t include the table that shows every single zip code including at least three that are around 20%

Following an unsettling trend across nation, Westchester ZIP codes hit hardest by the coronavirus pandemic are among the least vaccinated, according to county data.

Stark disparities in vaccination rates across Westchester have become evident with some ZIP codes exceeding 50% while other communities have struggled to hit 30% inoculation.

Perhaps no place serves as more of a microcosm of that unevenness than New Rochelle, (one of the nation’s first COVID-19 hot spots. )…

Two of the three city ZIP codes, 10801 and 10805, which make up the central and south sections of New Rochelle and are predominantly Black and Hispanic, each have rates of about 29%, as of April 29 for anyone ages 18 and older…

Those two ZIP codes shouldered the brunt of the pandemic over the last year…

Meanwhile, in the north end of New Rochelle, the 10804 ZIP code, the vaccination rate is about double at 59%. That part of the city is mostly white with higher incomes.

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I prefer not to speculate.

Regardless, the state has boatloads of money that they could spend on education/outreach/information systems to address whatever is causing the relatively poor numbers.

Didn’t say anything about wishing him ill, just pointing out that anger is somewhat of a useless emotion especially when dealing with a loved one.